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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Why not call it the ZX-14R????? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
beansbaxter


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posted September 16, 2005 07:51 PM        
Why not call it the ZX-14R?????

Just looking for an explanation - but why did Kawi not throw on the designated R at the end of the 14 model number? What does the R represent or stand for?

Why was the 1200 called the 12R but this new model is just called a 14?

Inquiring minds want to know...

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jimzx9r


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Posts: 451
posted September 16, 2005 08:08 PM        
Well...R models are typically "race replica" bikes...and offer the highest performance in terms of power and handling. Considering this bike is also used as a ZZR...it probably shouldn't be an R model. Touring does not go along with "race replica" at all. The 12R got the R designation because it was supposed to be an all out open classer, and it just so happened to work well for sport touring.

Can you imagine taking the ZX-14 around a road course? I know I definitely can't.

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vozizm


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posted September 16, 2005 08:40 PM        
i guess teh 12r and the 10r is all we get from now on!!
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VOZ

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trenace


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posted September 17, 2005 12:26 PM        
6R and 10R.
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swft


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posted September 18, 2005 11:13 AM        
It doesn't fit for a R. Raised chrome letters on the gas tank...Too many ZZR clues
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trenace


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posted September 24, 2005 02:45 PM        Edited By: trenace on 24 Sep 2005 21:46
You know, maybe (as a possibility) all this is exactly right instead of exactly wrong as much early thinking has been.

Most of the talk about what it would need different to be an "R" model has been, what? Different plastics and cosmetics! Sleeker tail, seat /gas tank section looking like the 12R or another sportbike, exhaust looking different.

But since when has Kawasaki made "R" models by just putting on different plastic?

Face it that would be cheesey.

Well, what other than plastic is perhaps non-ideal for this to be an R model?

As I see it, the taller, the wider, the heavier, and the heavier-cranked a motor, the less suitable it is for a supersports bike.

Kawasaki is probably right that more customers and more sales come from big torque at low rpm than screamer motors -- except among supersports riders, but, if we're talking sales success, more "standard" bikes are likely to be sold especially in this size class than supersports. So the 14 motor -- probably taller than the 12's motor by an inch or more, perhaps with heavier crank -- is probably the ticket for that market and also may be a new standard among stock motors for drag racing and top speed. But, asking for this bigger stroke (which in effect customers are doing) is inherently moving such a motor from supersport status.

The better approach?

Well, look at the 10R motor: 76 mm bore by 55 mm stroke (compared with 83 mm by 55.4 mm).

Though stroke is almost identical, it has a substantially higher redline: not as high as the tach says, and it was posted here what it actually is, but something like 12,500 rpm. It also makes almost the same rwhp as the 12 motor.

What if a motor were built on the 10's architecture but with bore centers spaced a little wider (the 10R is a narrow motor so a little more width is tolerable) and bore increased to say 87 mm?

Result, 1308 cc, and on the principle that bore increases can be expected to increase hp according to the 1.65 power assuming equal efficiency, about 15-16% more power than the 10R.

So, if one calls the 10R's rwhp say 152 (obviously dynos and figures will vary, you can call that high or low, it doens't matter) then on such a scale this motor would make 176 rwhp.

Or, if as Kawasaki does, one uses a figure of 184 hp at the crank with Ram Air for the 10R, then this motor could be predicted to develop about 213 under those conditions. Which is much more than Kawasaki is claiming for the 14.

I think is fair to say such a motor would beat the ZX-14 for hp as well as be not as tall, probably not as wide, probably lighter -- just overall a better supersport motor.

Could it be that there will be an ZX-R bike that has such a motor, rather than what was already a pretty big lump made an inch or two taller yet?


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chriscollins


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posted September 28, 2005 11:37 PM        
torque= the ability to accelerate the motor
horse power= the ability to sustain rpms under increasing loads.
torque wins drag races guys. why do you think we run nitrous or turbo.

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swft


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posted September 29, 2005 02:41 PM        
Ayep
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2


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hawkman


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posted September 29, 2005 03:29 PM        
quote:
torque= the ability to accelerate the motor
horse power= the ability to sustain rpms under increasing loads.
torque wins drag races guys. why do you think we run nitrous or turbo.


Not completely true. If so, Diesel trucks and Harleys would be winning all the time.

Torque = Acceleration
HP = Top Speed

Put them together and you've got the winning combo.

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chriscollins


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posted September 29, 2005 08:58 PM        
have you watched any pro stock lately Harleys win alot
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Varooom


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posted September 29, 2005 10:34 PM        
Those winning pro stock Harleys have no Harley parts in them. They are totally fabed.
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chriscollins


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posted September 29, 2005 11:39 PM        
even so i bet they have more torque than the inlines
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kawasabi


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posted September 30, 2005 12:57 AM        
Yea, because they are ungodly in size like 3000cc or some shit like that.
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trenace


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posted September 30, 2005 05:41 AM        
quote:
quote:
torque= the ability to accelerate the motor
horse power= the ability to sustain rpms under increasing loads.
torque wins drag races guys. why do you think we run nitrous or turbo.


Not completely true. If so, Diesel trucks and Harleys would be winning all the time.

Torque = Acceleration
HP = Top Speed

Torque is only a twisting force that has no reference to the rate at which the rotation, if any, occurs.

Put a lug wrench on a nut, hang a 100 lb weight one foot away from the nut, and you've got 100 ft lb of torque. The nut may remain stuck, no work is being done whatsoever, but you've got 100 ft lb of torque. What sort of powerful motor do you have here? None.

Engine torque is a predictor of acceleration only if gearing is known... but if that torque is at low rpm then high gearing is required for any given road speed, and the torque at the rear wheel will be low due to being in that high gear.

At any given engine rpm and torque, the higher the gearing of the transmission and sprockets, the lower the torque at the rear wheel, and the lower the force applied to the ground. (This is the main reason why acceleration is much less in 6th gear than in first, comparing say being at 3000 rpm in each case, so as to keep aeros not that great a factor.)

A motor that has a higher figure for torque at the crank (including if derived from rear wheel measurement, the figure refers to extrapolation to the crank without correction for losses besides correction already applied for the hp determination) does not necessarily accelerate more strongly at equal road speed.

E.g., some Harley Big Twins, straight from the factory, have equal or greater torque than the ZX-12R. Do you think they accelerate the same from equal road speed? No, because that torque is at lower rpm, thus gearing is taller for that same road speed, thus equal engine torque gives much LESS acceleration.

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