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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX-14.com > Thread: Was the ZX12R redundant? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
frEEk


Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9651
posted September 16, 2005 04:25 PM        
Was the ZX12R redundant?

as i mourn the passing of the zx12r (and the lack of what i woudl call a replacement), i find myself wondering if the decision to move away from a true big-bore ninja was actually a quite logical and reasonable decision. certainly the zx12r occupied a spot near the border of the sport and sport-touring categories right from the beginning, but without the 12, there would have been a rather large empty spot in that area of kawasaki's Venn diagram of model categories. it strikes me tho, that today there really is no need for a bike in that spot as the 10R really crowds the 12. it is quite close in CCs having been bumped up a full 100 from the once common 900 class, and has power that comes close to the 12R while being far lighter and better handling, and still fairly comfortable. the 12r was also arguably crowded by the zzr1200 too. so really this decision to essentially merge the zzr1200 and zx12r makes perfect sense. what is really the point of a ninja with a more powerful engine, at significantly higher weight than the 10R by necessesity too? the only points i can think of are land speed bieks & drag racing (at which the 10R seems to be doing damn well, only trumped by the 12 cause of the potential for working the 12). now arguably, both those (i imagine relatively small in terms of units dedicated to them) purposes can probably be well served by this new bike, while providing a sportier upgrade to the big zzr.

now don't think for a second that i'm not disapointed in what i see so far, because i am. but i'm also starting to think i really have no valid reason to be dissapointed. granted, i'm unlikely to but a bike like that again, even if it were a kick-ass 12R replacement, as a) i aint got no money and b) gas sucks, and my current 12 is a drunk. from the brief ride i've had on the 10r, i'd probably go that route as the power & torque is satisfactory, and obviously the bike is better is so many ways, AND it eats less fuel.

ok, so i do have every right to be dissapointed in the styling. there is NO reason for those ugly fins, and the hideous (imho) tailsection and tank & seat. but i suppose there is no accounting for taste...

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frEEk


Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9651
posted September 16, 2005 04:28 PM        
oh, i also meant to say that as a ZZR replacement, this bike is probably gonna ROCK (except for some of the styling). likely just as comfy as the bike it replaces, but with gobs of power, and probably better handling. if i were in the market for a large sport-tourer, i'd be all over this thing (as soon as someone produced aftermarket bodywork to get ride of the side fins).
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brain


Expert Class
Posts: 136
posted September 17, 2005 12:45 AM        
Like i said before,the 12 was a sport bike for us bigger guys and the 10 is not an option for us.Being big has its advantages in life but right now im feeling a little left out because of my size.The 10 has the power for us to ride but the old saying [monkey fucking a football] applies here.
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aliveagain


Needs a life
Posts: 5033
posted September 17, 2005 12:56 AM        
At 6'6",I tried to tuck in on a 1000 and my lips were hitting the wind screen.I need the bigger size bikes.
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.

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blueford


Needs a job
Posts: 2984
posted September 17, 2005 01:36 AM        
quote:
At 6'6",I tried to tuck in on a 1000 and my lips were hitting the wind screen.I need the bigger size bikes.


You ever seen Michael Jordan on a GSX R1000?

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frEEk


Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9651
posted September 17, 2005 02:34 AM        
didnt consider the size issue, partially as neither fish or myself at 6'3" have any problem with the 10. a touch more aggressive ergos, but not so much as to be uncomfortable. still, a valid point. however i think this problem is more the one discussed in another thread recently: why don't manufacturers offer certain adjustments (seat, pegs)?
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crashtech


Zone Head
Posts: 574
posted September 17, 2005 04:45 AM        
Freek.... That was perfect, I could not have said it better myself.
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OutsiderZX12R


Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
posted September 17, 2005 11:00 AM        
quote:
Like i said before,the 12 was a sport bike for us bigger guys and the 10 is not an option for us.Being big has its advantages in life but right now im feeling a little left out because of my size.The 10 has the power for us to ride but the old saying [monkey fucking a football] applies here.


Amen brother.
____________
OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1


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238mph


Pro
Posts: 1145
posted September 17, 2005 11:12 AM        
Just because some of the bigger guys ARE bigger, doesn't mean they want to ride
a friggin GoldWing (or something like a tourer, ie ZZR)

Although I'm only 5'10" the 10r feels very small and cramped to me... sure, if I were
off to track days, I could manage, for a sportbike, that I want to spend the day on, the
10r is WAY TOO SMALL.

I can understand that the bike manufacturers want to have the fastest track bike to make
sales to the wannabe racer squids... but the reality is that those bikes are not good all
around bikes to ride on a daily basis... The 12 is... I can toss a girl on the back... still
kick ass... have some fun on a twisty road... spend the day just sightseeing and cruising
around town... and be pretty comfortable PLUS HAVE THE LOOK OF A SPORTBIKE.

The 14 will do all of that above... but IT DOESN'T LOOK RACEY... DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A
SPORTBIKE.

Now I know that sounds like a poser... yep... but one of the reasons I don't own a Gold Wing
is simply because of the old man looks. I bet I'd have a blast on one... but until they
figure out how to make a tour machine look more sportier, I won't touch one.

Face it... looks count... and on this bike, Kawasaki fcked up in the looks dept.



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NinjaNick


Needs a job
'08 ZX14 (Blue)
Posts: 4558
posted September 17, 2005 10:13 PM        
quote:
Just because some of the bigger guys ARE bigger, doesn't mean they want to ride
a friggin GoldWing (or something like a tourer, ie ZZR)

Although I'm only 5'10" the 10r feels very small and cramped to me... sure, if I were
off to track days, I could manage, for a sportbike, that I want to spend the day on, the
10r is WAY TOO SMALL.

I can understand that the bike manufacturers want to have the fastest track bike to make
sales to the wannabe racer squids... but the reality is that those bikes are not good all
around bikes to ride on a daily basis... The 12 is... I can toss a girl on the back... still
kick ass... have some fun on a twisty road... spend the day just sightseeing and cruising
around town... and be pretty comfortable PLUS HAVE THE LOOK OF A SPORTBIKE.

The 14 will do all of that above... but IT DOESN'T LOOK RACEY... DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A
SPORTBIKE.

Now I know that sounds like a poser... yep... but one of the reasons I don't own a Gold Wing
is simply because of the old man looks. I bet I'd have a blast on one... but until they
figure out how to make a tour machine look more sportier, I won't touch one.

Face it... looks count... and on this bike, Kawasaki fcked up in the looks dept.







Agreed......even though I love nimbleness and own a small bike also....

The 12 and Busa's are just cozey wozey!

I hope if I ever decide to get one other than a liter bike they are still looking good.(12/busa)

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TedG


Moderator
Posts: 8222
posted September 21, 2005 04:31 AM        
When I look at the 14 all that I see is a bike meant to invade the Busas sales territory. And as ugly as it is, it still looks 10 times better than the current and 2006 busa. IMHO.
Lets face it, Kawasaki wants a sales winner, they have the 10, but the 12 was a flop (in the sales department) and a winner in the looks and function department. So we have to ask ourselves what is a good sales formula? Well the busa sells well even if it is the ugliest motorcycle ever to roll on 2 wheels. It has 4 into 2, covered wiring, big CCs, etc. So Kwak is trying to cash in on that. Good sales is what brings us the really great bikes, for without them they can't afford the R&D.
As for the 10, I am 5"10" (and shrinking ) and the 10 is more comfortable to me than the 12. I didn't think that would be possible. Some of that is due to the ease of which I can ride the 10. I love the wrestling match of a big bike, well at least I thought I did. But the effortless way you can carry speed and wheelie out of corners has totally converted me. I just need more power.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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trenace


Needs a job
Posts: 3056
posted September 21, 2005 09:42 AM        
Question -- I don't know the answer but have an impression -- which sold more bikes per year? ZX-11 in its heyday, or ZX-12R?
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TedG


Moderator
Posts: 8222
posted September 21, 2005 10:08 AM        
I am guessing but I would say the 11 by a long shot. It was the king of speed for many years.
____________
Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS

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trenace


Needs a job
Posts: 3056
posted September 21, 2005 11:12 AM        
That was my impression too. I don't know it for a fact.

But if true, suppose Kawasaki was thinking, "Hmmm, which sold better, the ZX-11 or the ZX-12R? Well, the ZX-11 sales were good, quite good, but the ZX-12R sales really weren't... so should we put the new 14 bike into the ZX-11's niche but far more powerful and modern and better in every way, or into the ZX-12R's niche?"

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k bryant


Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
posted September 21, 2005 11:14 AM        
That's a good question. I owned a '96 ZX11 and don't recall seeing very many of them. If I recall, I think this first year or so got a bum rap because of a weak gear (?). But when I bought my '03 12, I recall noticing a great deal of 12's here in SoCal. From an exhaust system sales standpoint, I would have to say we were selling way more 12 exhaust systems than 11's.

Just out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see registration numbers on the two.

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