GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted November 25, 2007 12:32 PM
Steve...........................Try and hold your nose while swallowing that CROW! Wait a minute you can hold Fish's nose while he holds yours. I hope you are both hungry because there's a lot of CROW for you two.
KAWASAKI........................OWNS the liter class.....
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
  
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 25, 2007 04:40 PM
quote:
Steve...........................Try and hold your nose while swallowing that CROW! Wait a minute you can hold Fish's nose while he holds yours. I hope you are both hungry because there's a lot of CROW for you two.
KAWASAKI........................OWNS the liter class.....
Fish had nothing to do with this...... although I remember a Honda 1000RR article on Bikeland?
Anyway, it was me that stepped out on the limb and posted in a ZX10 forum:
"posted August 25, 2007 11:29 PM
2008 - The HONDA CBR1000RR will do in the litre bike class EXACTLY what the 600RR has done in 2007!"
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
warbird
Needs a job
Posts: 2739
|
posted November 25, 2007 07:21 PM
I think the new ZX10R will win the hp wars................but for ANYONE to beat Suzuki around the track here in the U.S. will be a hard road to hoe.......................  Keep track of this thread Steve..............and we will see who's guess is closest.............. 
____________
I'd Rather Be Roadracing.
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted November 25, 2007 09:28 PM
Just read the article again.
-2 lbs lighter crankshaft, not but 1 lb.... get this ..... 2 POUNDS!!!!!! (HUGE)
-all new gear box with smaller gears for better gear mesh and shifting, lighter
-new cam profile with more duration and lift, quicker aggressive ramps
-new valvesprings for cam , and new design to lower head(engine) height
-redesign air box and ram air system, shorter intake tract
-smaller valves for better throttle response
-hand ported head
-traction control
-oval throttlebodies for increase low throttle response, yet still great high throttle flow
-new frame, with torsional flex optimized for feedback
-new wheels all pressure cast (similar to forging) lighter and stronger.
The all new gearbox, and crank assembly will attribute to huge changes to handling.
with reduced gyroscopic effect, turn in and cornering will become much more like a 600.
Definately a year to buy a new zx10!
It WILL revolutionize the literclass and dominate just as the 2004 model had, but beter gearbox and more power everywhere.
With a crank and gearbox that light I can see whay they added traction control...
It will need it from the increase in throttle response and quicker rpm pickup!
Glad I have waited to see what surfaces. Will continue to observe.
You can bet next years 2009 GSXR1000 will be a weapon, with all the new competition.
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 25, 2007 09:31 PM
+1 its a decent debate!
and HP on the track isn't priority one, remember the past when racers that did the shootouts said the ZX10 pulled the hardest but was the most unmanageable on the track and produced slower overall lap times.... well when all and everything is said and done WHICH bike in '08 will get around the track the fastest in '08?
I bet on the redesigned Honda, hmmm...Suzuki??? aight lets see!?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21871
|
posted November 26, 2007 05:17 AM
quote:
KAWASAKI........................OWNS the liter class.....
It does? I thought Suzuki's won every year for the last 9 billion years. Hmmm... maybe I'm following the wrong "liter class" 
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
YZF
Expert Class
Posts: 144
|
posted November 26, 2007 06:14 AM
quote:
ok we'll see, and lets compare apples to apples on the HP ratings. 198 at the rear wheel..... ok
CBR08 does not have 178rwhp. Thats engine hp. 
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 26, 2007 06:42 AM
quote:
quote:
ok we'll see, and lets compare apples to apples on the HP ratings. 198 at the rear wheel..... ok
CBR08 does not have 178rwhp. Thats engine hp.
+1 right around that "crank" and the ZX10 with 198? Uhm I dunno about that take either...the ZX14 was barely acheiving those reults at the crank
I'm waiting to see which bike is truly fastest and best overal, I don't care about straight line and raw HP stuff too much
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
YZF
Expert Class
Posts: 144
|
posted November 26, 2007 06:58 AM
Pre-info, ZX10R08 has 175rwhp stock, 185rwhp with full akra system.
Factory says 190crank hp without ram air (198 with ram air).
Numbers not 100% official, but from realiable sources. We should see true numbers soon...
|
Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
|
posted November 26, 2007 07:05 AM
I am a die hard Kawi guy, I bleed green....and I hope the ZX10 picks up and runs away with the liter class. But I dont see it happening...The 06 ZX10 was suppose to be a better bike than the 04-05. It had as much power, but was smoother. But it also had handleing issues that were never completly resolved. The big race teams were haveing a lot of work done to the front ends to give them better feedback and feel. I talked to Doug Chandler one day on the track in Demming with Roger Hemesburger and he was talking about exactally that. He had been working on fixes for some big name teams trying to get them to work right.
That being said, the new 08 10 could very well end up having and achellis heel so to speak like the 06 had. I hope it doesnt. but until they put pro level guys on it against pro level guys on other brands, we wont know. Same can be said for the Hondas or any new bike format.
I have no doubts that the ZX10 will make serious power in 08, but you have to put it to the ground in a useable manner for it to do any good. Lets see what happens when the likes of the Hayden brothers gets a hold of it and puts it against Spies on the track, only then will the truth be told.....
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted November 26, 2007 07:35 AM
the 08 zx10 has traction control...
how can it not put the power down well?
The frame has been totally revamped.... looks like they went after the issues.
We can only hope.
My question is, can we, and how do we remove the traction control.
My next bike will be a literbike, and eventually will be turbo.
I'm Leary of having alot of timing, or fuel pulled out of the engine when under boost....
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 26, 2007 08:48 AM
One of the magazines said traction control will not prohibit burn outs/tire warming from a standstill.
Head's up, the traction control isn't unique to Kawi for '08. It'll be interesting to see with the same riders which bike goes around the track the fastest
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted November 26, 2007 08:59 AM
quote:
quote:
KAWASAKI........................OWNS the liter class.....
It does? I thought Suzuki's won every year for the last 9 billion years. Hmmm... maybe I'm following the wrong "liter class"
Yea they did Fish ........................BUT while everyone else was working within the rules Suzuki was useing traction control weren't they?
PLUS racetrack use and road use are two different animals...
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:03 AM
Most people that buy and make up the market can't use the full potential of any of the liter bike.. they buy what they like for all kinds of reasons beyond track times....like power.. or brand loyalty ect ect...
JUST buy what ya like...
blah blah blah...hehe
____________
Salsa1
|
salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:04 AM
 Edited By: salsa1 on 26 Nov 2007 09:06
Most people that buy and make up the market can't use the full potential of any of the liter bikes..... they buy what they like for all kinds of "reasons" beyond better track times....like power!! or "looks" .. or brand loyalty ect ect...
JUST buy what ya like...
blah blah blah...hehe
would choose the 2008 ZX-10R for me...in black.. I expect an awesome bike... thank you very much...
keeping my 04 black.. ZX-10R.. having too much fun to trade up and spend all that money?
Have fun.. whatever...
____________
Salsa1
|
k bryant
Needs a job
Sponsor
Posts: 2911
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:09 AM
quote:
I wonder if Kerry has had other pre-production bikes in his shop for fitting? Like the Honda, for example.
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:56 AM
I'm still wondering if the Honda will whoop the ZX10 on the track!?
Hopefully aftermarket performance parts manufacturers have all the redesigned 2008 bikes by now
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
dubious
Needs a life
Needs more time to ride!
Posts: 8442
|
posted November 26, 2007 02:54 PM
Edited By: dubious on 26 Nov 2007 14:56
quote:
One of the magazines said traction control will not prohibit burn outs/tire warming from a standstill.
Head's up, the traction control isn't unique to Kawi for '08. It'll be interesting to see with the same riders which bike goes around the track the fastest
still does not negate the fact a turbo could push the a/f ratio over 30:1 instantaneously if the trcation is controlled by pulling fuel.... and burn pistons! OUCH
I just don't have alot of faith in Honda and the literclass,last time they revolutionised that class was something like a decade ago.... CBR929, they did it with huge weight savings....
The bikes can't reliably / affordably get any lighter anytime soon..... not the ones for street or general public anyway.
It will be interesting.
Of the big 4 , for 2008 I would put $20 on the zx10... any takers?
all around best bike, literbike of 2008, cct, drag and street...
which publication/ or 2 rags, do we trust?
____________
natural selection.....
destiny will overcome intervention.
Some are not worthy of the effort.
|
GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted November 26, 2007 09:52 PM
HONDA is STILL GAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 26, 2007 11:10 PM
I can't wait to see which '08 bike goes around the track the fastest.
 I'll provide a tip, look what Honda did to the 600R class in 07, when the naysayers said "Honda hasn't dominated this class since the 90's" and "Honda is ghey". And its no secret I'm not brand loyal I can just spot a spanking when its coming
 look what Kawi did to the 600 for '07, it ranks where? The critics still can't beleive Kawi dropped the "36" from the end of 600 and provided such a poor overall performer on the track.
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
YZF
Expert Class
Posts: 144
|
posted November 27, 2007 12:37 AM
You can not make any conclusions about liter class, looking at 600cc class....
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 27, 2007 07:25 AM
Nope, was not concluding anything. The jury is still out on the litre class as I've said. I'm waiting for testing and results just same as everyone else.
I was just pointing out to the naysayers how obviously erroneous prior predictions about Honda were after Honda was sleeping for years in the 600 class.
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted November 27, 2007 08:05 AM
Steve........and anyone else that don't realize this. Racing is alway dominated by the company willing to spend the most money. It's clear that Honda has the deepest pockets and with that in mind they win ALOT.
But for the rest of us that live and ride in the real world THAT MEANS NOTHING!! We don't get those special one off parts and perfectly assembled motors. On the street and in the canyons it's in my hands to take a very sharp AX and deliver. Kawasaki always provides that AX for me.
In case it's not clear we don't ride on the track everyday, but I do ride on the street. What happens on the track means nothing to me.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 27, 2007 12:10 PM
I'm not referring to pro team racing events at all. I'm referring to the testing when each bike is taken out of the box and tested. Such as when the pro's get hired by a magazine and with the same rider each bike is taken around the track. Then the dyno runs, suspension tests, braking distances, etc etc. Each bike is also ridden hard on the street. Its just the shootouts to determine the best overall performing bike.
In '07 Honda 600 clearly dominated after being the losers for years and years. Again I don;t know who will give us the best performing bike in '08. I went on a limb and suspect Honda because its no secret the Honda litre redesign had a ton of money and technology dumped. I'm not brand loyal anyway or I'd have bought a Honda.
I suspect the only strong point the Kawi will have for '08 is a for more HP than the others and traction control (not unique). Other than the straightline dragstrip, I don;t see Kawi's '08 being it for '08. Maybe I'm wrong and will eat some of that crow feet mentioned of course, we will see soon enough
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
|
posted November 27, 2007 12:21 PM
Are we're supposed to say "Kawi and only Kawi makes the best litre bike, and they make the best one every year" and "no clue why the others even bother to make litre bikes, they are inferior every year"
Thats just not realistic!
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC