worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
|
posted June 23, 2004 10:55 AM
...but until then, its always a safe bet to break it in per oem specs...besides, what the big rush?...ya' got a race to do or something?...racin' for the gold are ya?...feelin' left out?...savor the moments....
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
  
|
madav8tr
Novice Class
Posts: 53
|
posted June 23, 2004 01:14 PM
Well, I have owned 17 motorcycles and bought 5 of those brand new. I have never followed the manufacturers break-in recommendations and as long as the RPM limits are so low, I never will. I do not thrash my bikes but I also do not lug them around when new. That is excatly what your doing at 4k rpm on the ZX10 while on the interstate doing the speed limit. NO? My CBR1100 had 32,000 miles and never even needed so much as a valve adjustment and it was broken in the way I do all my bikes. My Ducati 996 was the strongest stock 996 the place I bought it from ever dynoed. Too bad I totalled it at Deal's Gap with under 10K miles on it. I was curious to see how it held up over the long haul. My RC was similarly stout and none of the bikes I purchased new had oil consumption problems. I broke my ZX10 in the same way and I am hopeful that it will be OK as well. BTW, I talked to Dan Kyle and he said that he broke his ZX10R in the same way he does all of his bikes........the 1st hundered miles are logged on the dyno at full throttle.
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
|
posted June 23, 2004 01:23 PM
well.... I guess we all must be wrong  alright you guys.. .tear up those manuals and throw them away.... and to all of you guys who work in the industry and at the factories... well... guess you guys have been wrong all this time
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
|
posted June 23, 2004 01:47 PM
Welcome aboard fish. Prepare to see the world in entirely new ways. It's like a Kaleidoscope of pretty colors...Can you see them???
|
big daddy
Zone Head
Posts: 616
|
posted June 23, 2004 01:54 PM
I only see ORANGE
BD
|
pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
|
posted June 23, 2004 02:00 PM
BD anyone with an orange bike and blue rims can definitly see that kaleidoscope of colors.
|
madav8tr
Novice Class
Posts: 53
|
posted June 23, 2004 02:09 PM
Fish, why the condesending overtones in you post? I was simply stating my experiences in the past. How about you? How many new bikes have you broken in? Were you following the manufacturers reccomendations to the letter? If you have had great success that way, I am happy for you. Also, how many of these "insiders" have actually built an engine? Rebuilt one that was damaged because of an over aggressive break-in? I have never heard of one and I worked for a dealership that caters to a large squid crowd. Dan Kyle has built/rebuilt more than a couple and he prolly knows as much about the internal combustion engine as anyone....including the engineers at Kawasaki. Is his way right? Not for me and prolly not for you but it works for him and I would sincerely like to see someone argue this point with him. It would be laughable to say the least. Break your bikes in how you want I was simply sharing my past experiences.
|
JNM
Expert Class
Posts: 109
|
posted June 23, 2004 06:14 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the 10R is running titanium valves that may require a little more patience during break-in due to some type of ultra thin coating from the factory. This was just explained to me by someone who knows alot more about it than I do. He will try to do some leakdown tests to see if this can be quantified. Having said this, I did not follow the Kaw break in guidelines but I also did not run the snot out of it.
____________
CCS #428
|
widowmaker
Expert Class
Posts: 378
|
posted June 23, 2004 06:43 PM
Just get the extended warranty for 5 yrs and (((ride the shit out of it))) then trade it in on a new one.
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
|
posted June 23, 2004 06:52 PM
 Edited By: fish_antlers on 23 Jun 2004 19:57
madav8tr .... perhaps you arent familiar with who posts in this forum.. I can guarantee you that the people you are calling "insiders" rebuild engines all day long. They are employees, mechanics, engineers and developers who work at the major factories or for them in the aftermarket. Most of them sit at the factory (KMC in particular) and read posts like this with a chuckle. I can assure you that you are providing excellent "water cooler" chat for them. Keep up the good work!
Condescending? Yes... I know who's advice I can trust, after personally touring the facitlies of KMC and others I'll gladly take the advice of the people who do the R&D on these machines over "some guy on the internet".
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
Dino
Pro
Posts: 1422
|
posted June 23, 2004 07:15 PM
Here's my take.
Kawasaki lays down those rules so if anything hapeens to the motor, they check the ECU and see where at 497 miles, you took it to 4500 rpm.
" We regret to inform you that your warranty has been nullified. You did not follow the manufacturers guidelines."
____________
uh oh
|
widowmaker
Expert Class
Posts: 378
|
posted June 23, 2004 07:20 PM
My buddy bought a 2001 ford excursion with the V10 missed one oil change,
well the motor went out not because of missing 1 oil change who knows why but anyhow ford wanted proof of the oil changes and would not cover it over 1 oil change.
so my buddy got a lawer after a $1500 dollar lawer bill he had to give up because ford was just drag it out. He ended up paying $6000 for a new motor and $1500 to his lawer.
|
madav8tr
Novice Class
Posts: 53
|
posted June 23, 2004 07:34 PM
Fish, the term "insiders" isn't intended to be an insult. As for me providing excellent water cooler chat for them, great. If they had a compelling argument against it they would do less chatting at the water cooler and more educating on this forum. That isn't happening so my guess is that they don't have an argument against it. Like I stated before I was sharing my experiences with new bikes and I prefer my break-in method over the books. That will continue until I experience a problem related to break-in or it is PROVEN that the factories methods are better for performance and longevity. I am through with this revolving door argument.
|
extremelean
Pro
Posts: 1651
|
posted June 23, 2004 08:01 PM
You wont find any arguments because you as a consumer have a freedom of choice and no OEM would want to alienate their customers.
The Information and procedures provided in any owners manual is carefully thought out and printed for maximum life of the machine.
Enjoy your ride.
|
DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
|
posted June 23, 2004 08:43 PM
quote:
You wont find any arguments because you as a consumer have a freedom of choice and no OEM would want to alienate their customers.
The Information and procedures provided in any owners manual is carefully thought out and printed for maximum life of the machine.
Enjoy your ride.
Well said extremelean, and with that comment I think I hear the door shutting on this subject.
____________
Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
|
bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
|
posted June 23, 2004 09:19 PM
Fish breath and the sacred Kaws. Good name for a band.
|
DB
Pro
Posts: 1932
|
posted June 23, 2004 09:32 PM
quote:
Fish breath and the sacred Kaws. Good name for a band
Just before the door slammed shut on this subject bovinewhatever gets the final words. The door is closed, dead-bolted and chained shut.
____________
Dan
04 ZX10r (Track only)
08 Concours14
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
|
posted June 23, 2004 09:55 PM
quote:
You wont find any arguments because you as a consumer have a freedom of choice and no OEM would want to alienate their customers.
The Information and procedures provided in any owners manual is carefully thought out and printed for maximum life of the machine.
Enjoy your ride.
mad et al.. the factory has spoken.
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
|
posted June 24, 2004 03:59 AM
...but wait...there's more...fish, et al....who really cares how people break-in their bikes that they bought with their own money, especially if they didn't follow oem specs?...it will not affect you and your bike...it will affect ONLY THEM and ONLY THEIR bikes...THEY can spend all the money they want after they screw it up by not following instructions and try to file warranty work with the manufacturers...all the manufacturers have to do is ask: "Did you follow our instructions on how to break your engine in?" If you reply, "No.", then you don't have a leg to stand on. If you reply, "Yes.", then the manufacturer will investigate it as thoroughly as they can to prove or disprove that you did or didn't follow the OEM instructions....
...maybe there'll come the day when all we'll get are bikes already broken in from the manufacturers...a tedious endeavor, but no room for errors there...and the cost or savings passed on to you 
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
|
salsa1
Needs a life
Posts: 5971
|
posted June 24, 2004 04:23 AM
Edited By: salsa1 on 24 Jun 2004 06:13
Do not exceed 4000 rpm till 500 miles and do not exceed 6000 rpm till 1000 miles is carefully thought out instructions???!!!! WOW .....
Problem must be manual instructions are just too deep for many of the educated sector of the consumers owning Kawasaki's who have dared to think out of "the box".
Can anyone answer why Yamaha has a new (detailed) break in procedure for their new 2004 R1??; Do they know something we are supposed to dummy up about?
Ironically guidliness for break-in of the 2004 Yamaha R1 was posted by the administration of this very forum. Nothing personal just pointing out an obvious inconsistency or oversight?.
I expect more political garbage for an answer or none at all ;but then again thats all that has been offered from the "book" supporters. Besides the old fashion trust me...or trust who I happen to know.
Then there is the classic: All the engine builders worth listening to are on our side. Anyone with half a brain knows thats a joke.
Thank God world is much bigger than that. I now promise myself I am done with this non-sense.
Many folks were just looking for honest information on "best" break-in method or information with impartiality. Obviously discouraged or not allowed on this particular forum.(Info supporting best break in has been found,supported and proven anyhow).
Again thank God for the information and freedom we have in America where even the president and his administration can be challenged without fear.
I am done. Doing great; did not follow book or get carried away and loving it. Got plenty of reasearch and experts of my own choosing. Bike is a monster 2500 miles.
How about a Poll just for fun....No comments should be needed .
Peace guys. No hard feelings.
Check this out for those interested:
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
Have fun ;Stay alive.
|
bovinespongiformencephalo
Pro
variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
|
posted June 24, 2004 05:31 AM
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
Last word?
|
fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
|
posted June 24, 2004 05:43 AM
quote:
...but wait...there's more...fish, et al....who really cares how people break-in their bikes that they bought with their own money, especially if they didn't follow oem specs?...
no one, really.... but we'd all be bored to pieces if we didnt talk about stuff like this! 
____________
What business is it of yours where I'm from, Friendo?
|
whitesands26
Novice Class
Posts: 84
|
posted June 24, 2004 03:10 PM
Edited By: whitesands26 on 24 Jun 2004 16:12
The only question I have is...How many of you that follow the owners manual exactly on break in procedure also follow the recommended oil and oil filter changes ?
I find somewhat of a contradiction in the owners manual of some motorcycles...For example, I have an 01' RC51 and the manual suggests oil changes every 4,000 miles and oil filter changes every 8,000 miles...Oil changes every 4,000 miles in a motor where the average rpm while being driven is double or triple the average rpm of a car and the same oil is also used to lubricate the transmission????
Yet, you've got to take it real easy for the first 1,000 miles and stay below 4,000 rpm??? Does anyone see what I'm seeing ? Going 8,000 miles between oil filter changes doesn't sound like you'd be "taking it easy" on the motor.
I have yet to see a DETAILED description of break in procedure from the manufacturers with the exception of Yamaha's latest break in procedure bulletin.
"Keep it under 4,000 rpm until 1000 miles is reached" is NOT what I would call a detailed description.
So does this mean that you pick your bike up and go for a 1000 mile ride, stop in at a dealer to have the oil changed at 600, then ride nonstop until you reached 1,000 miles...And now you're clear to max it out ?
My point is if you go with the "detailed" description given by the manufacturers then it can be left wide open to interpretation because it is not detailed enough...Some poor guy can end up cruising around in 6th gear at 4,000 rpm lugging his motor and we all know that's not good for a new engine.
My other point is...Even if there are some coats from the manufacturers posting on this message board, then why would they post info contradicting what official company material states ? They would be in jeapordy of losing their jobs! These guys have to follow company guidlines and failing to do so could get them in trouble. So don't expect contradictory info from these fine gentlemen...If I were in their shoes I would say follow the manual too.
With that said, I've raced motocross for years...With several bikes in the stable each year...Practicing 3 to 4 days a week and racing 2 classes every weekend. I broke in my bikes with extremely brief high rpm blasts followed by cool downs with each run lasting about 10 minutes...I also followed this procedure after every top end job that took place on every bike every 3 weeks or so.
Never had a motor related failure except for a clutch going out at the start of a race on my 125.
The term "hard break in" is misleading....Actually, if followed correctly you are taking it easy by keeping you rides very brief and taking a calculated approach to seating the rings.
It does not mean just going out with half a brain and redlining your bike....There is actually a tactful approach.
|
theturboeffect
Novice Class
Posts: 56
|
posted June 24, 2004 03:59 PM
Isn't it true that car and motorcycle manufacturers run the engine pretty hard before leaving the factory to make sure there are no problems.
|
catd11r
Expert Class
Posts: 206
|
posted June 24, 2004 04:24 PM
Oh no, not again!
____________
Life's Been Good to Me!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC