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BIKELAND > FORUMS > DRAGBIKE ZONE.com > Thread: CP 1255cc pistons zx12 NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 17, 2011 03:04 PM        
CP 1255cc pistons zx12

A mechanic is wanting to use a set of CP 1255cc race pistons in my 02 zx12....He says that they only have 2 oil rings instead of 3.... He said it might burn some oil at some time and will need to change the sprk. plugs more often. Is this a bad idea?

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shiphteey


Needs a job
Posts: 2474
posted February 17, 2011 07:14 PM        
Not if you keep an eye on your oil level. Go for it and have fun.

A.
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Gemini Motorcycles

Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.

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Shane661


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Posts: 11491
posted February 18, 2011 03:28 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 18 Feb 2011 11:42
My understanding is that the 2-ring setups are not very good for street use. I am using them in my 1534 race engine, but that is only because I have to due to the raised piston pin. I was told that 2-ring is definitely not what you want for the street.

I was also told that some of the ring packages can wear out as quickly as 5k miles on the street, depending on the particular setup, ie. if the pistons are gas ported. So, there is quite a bit to consider.

Particularly on a stock stroke 12R, I can't really think of a compelling reason to use a 2-ring setup. Excessive oil consumption, and especially those plugs on the 12R...I say forget it for a street motor! Maybe Y2K or Entropy can add their thoughts.

Now, if we are talking about a race motor, on a bike that you tend to tinker with all of the time, perhaps it is not such an issue.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Shane

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JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 18, 2011 07:24 AM        
quote:
My understanding is that the 2-ring setups are not very good for street use. I am using them in my 1534 race engine, but that is only because I have to due to the raised piston pin. I was told that 2-ring is definitely not what you want for the street.

I was also told that some of the ring packages can wear out as quickly as 5k miles on the street, depending on the particular setup, ie. if the pistons are gas ported. So, there is quite a bit to consider.

Particularly on a stock stroke 12R, I can't really think of a compelling reason to use a 2-ring setup. Excessive oil consumption, and especially those plugs on the 12R...I say forget it for a street motor! Maybe Y2K or Entropy can add their thoughts.

Now, if we are talking about a race motor, on a bike that you tend to tinker with all of the time, perhaps it is not such an issue.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Shane

Yes,That was the decision I was asked to make,was do I want the extra hp (2 to 3 hp) vs. more maintenance /upkeep to do. And I said hell no I hate changing the plugs on my bike....And then possibly having a smoking motor. This bike will be a street/strip bike. I just those pistons are more fore something like a gp race or something.
Thanks.

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Shane661


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Posts: 11491
posted February 18, 2011 08:54 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 18 Feb 2011 15:54
I was considering a 2mm 12R at one point, but then decided to go ahead with the 3mm. It runs great on the street, and it's a very proven combination. So, you might want to consider that unless you are planning to spray a really big shot of nitrous. The 1287 combo should make a little more power.

Shane

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JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 18, 2011 02:44 PM        
He did give the option to go to the 1287cc kit.....After your input here I just informed him of the 1287cc option. Nope no Nitrous is in the pic. ALL motor. what e/t should this run with a race cam and int. cam in the exh. side, with port work, 200 lb. rider weight and 12" over arm w.good lock up tune.
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Shane661


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posted February 18, 2011 03:05 PM        Edited By: Shane661 on 18 Feb 2011 22:13
I would think that setup should put you solidly into the 8's...not sure how far you are looking to go? It also depends on the weight of the bike.

My motor is an Ace Performance Stage 2R 1287. I expect it would run 8.80's or better with a good chassis setup, race fuel, and a 200 lbs suited rider. At +12" I would imagine that 8.50's - 8.60's could be possible if the bike were lightened up enough. It would need to 60/330' hard to run those times, and that requires good chassis/clutch setup.

These are just estimates...it is very rider dependent, as I'm sure you know. I think NOX run's 5.70's in the 1/8th on a long bike with stock motor and great clutch tune. Maybe PM him for more solid advice on the potential? I haven't set mine up for the dragstrip yet, but I know what my stock motor 14 has run at 64-65"....and I know what some long 12R's have run with other riders onboard.

Shane

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JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 18, 2011 04:05 PM        
Thanks Shane. It DOES have a good chassis/shock setup and WILL have a good lockup tune once I get it to the track.8.8`s would be expected 8 5`s would be a dream a really good one....
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JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 18, 2011 04:06 PM        
Thanks Shane. It DOES have a good chassis/shock setup and WILL have a good lockup tune once I get it to the track.8.8`s would be expected 8 5`s would be a dream a really good one....I`d love to find a 8.5 run outta that bike....
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Bigbore4


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Posts: 768
posted February 26, 2011 03:17 AM        
I've got a 2 mil CP kit ready to go into my 12. I have not even looked at the oil ring setup, but what's been said about the oil ring doesn't make any sense. Most engines use only 1 oil ring and it consists of an expander and 1 scraper on top of expander and 1 scraper on the bottom.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but maybe Jim or Sal can pipe in and clarify this?

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Shane661


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posted February 26, 2011 05:21 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Feb 2011 13:07
Jim is one of the people that told me that the 2-ring setup was not ideal for the street.



As you can see, outside of the "Oil Control Ring", the "Second Ring" also provides a degree of oil control.

Shane

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Stuart Racing


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N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
posted February 26, 2011 07:33 AM        
Aaah,good find Shane...This explains a lot about that setup......
But I wonder why CP would just use 2 rings anyways unless there`s a perf. advantage somewhere.....
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Life in the Fast Lane..........

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Shane661


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posted February 26, 2011 07:36 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 26 Feb 2011 14:45
I imagine there is a reduction in friction, which could free up a little power? On my ZX-14 there is no other option. The wrist pin is raised to offset the additional stroke (the 14 has a 1-piece upper case/cylinder....so, you can't do anything with base gaskets).

Shane

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Stuart Racing


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N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
posted February 26, 2011 01:40 PM        
Yes,Thats what I saw on the 14,case and cyl. are all one piece......Stronger deal.....
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Life in the Fast Lane..........

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VincentHill


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Posts: 6453
posted February 28, 2011 12:38 PM        
John, CP makes very good pistons. When I was speaking to a person at the company that makes the Pistons for the Porsche, He mentioned Crosworth and CP in the same breath.

On my 2 stroke Yamaha, we only ran "1" RIng period! SInce this is a 4 stroke the center ring and Oil RIng are enough and all I ever had!

One secret I learned about the Bottom ring is that there is a top and bottom to them. Take each one and with the gap 90 degrees to your fingers, squeeze them a little. If theu are right side up, the ring will squeeze down. All of the rings will bend either up or down so have them all going the same way!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!

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JOHNJ


Novice Class
Posts: 70
posted February 28, 2011 01:55 PM        
Oh no problems with quality, It was that I was advised of possible pre mature blowby or oil usage and possibly having to change the sprk plugs more often after some miles because there might be oil in the topend of the motor or pistons.
Thanks for the ring tip.

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