posted January 30, 2010 01:20 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Jan 2010 21:22
- DIY Flow Bench? - Has anyone here constructed their own flow bench for cylinder head testing?
This is the kind of thing that I am talking about:
posted January 30, 2010 01:26 PM
i know people who use stuff like that. as long as you keep using the same stuff and not try to convert what ever numbers it gives you to big flow bench numbers you will be able to see your self pick up flow. try to keep the intake port runners around the same cc volume.
some juse used a big shop vac into a big plastic box with a hile to slap a chamber over and a manometer off the side of the box for vacume. as long as you are not trying to be "mr porting guy" you should be able to see what works.
it will be fun i bet.
posted January 30, 2010 01:32 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 30 Jan 2010 21:44
It seems like a pretty cool setup, but one you could build for cheaper than $1000.
An idea I was thinking of was a digital flow meter with probe.
This type of flow meter allows you to input the pipe diameter and it will instantly show flow in cfm. These meters can be had for under $400.
Seems simple, and perhaps adequate one you build the rest of the piping and bench?
I think a large part of the kit above is the cost of the software. But I imagine that simple math and gauges will suffice? In that case you probably don't even need the expensive digital flow meter.
posted January 30, 2010 01:54 PM
you can use any reading that goes up with flow (or down a manometer water guage). the cfm numbers you will get will only be usable to you. a "real" flow bench will be able to pull someware close or at 28" of water/ that my friend requires horsepower and those numbers will be higher flow compaired to your setup.
if comming up with something your self look for anything that can show a small change and you need to be able to check the actual cfm flow of the shop vac. it will go up and down some and as the brushes wear it will drop off.
look in the grisley tool book for a dust collector. most use real motors with out brushes. 5 hp 240vac should last for ever and pull enough vacume maybe.
if i think of anything from my work i work with i will let you know. i bet a map sensor into a box you pull from with the head chamber on top will be plenty sensitive., only need a 5vdc power supply that is steady.
posted January 30, 2010 03:31 PM
yeah , here is a pic of mine , along with a welder i just picked up
honestly , I don't know what size motor you would need to do a motocycle head, but the one on the SF600 is 220volt and is connected to a 50 amp breaker...
posted January 30, 2010 03:42 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 30 Jan 2010 23:43
which super flow bench is that? the 250 i think are around here used. chad got one and like you and i said, they use one hell of a breaker on them.
i bet for less then a thousand dollars you can get a more or less real flow bench for that or less used.
posted January 30, 2010 04:42 PM
Actually, it looks like the shop vacs might be a better choice than a dust collector:
"What shop vac should I use for a Flow Performance Basic Electronic Flow Bench
A 5 HP or higher shop vac is recommended, but not required. Much lower HP vacs will work just as well for smaller jobs. You will want a shop vac that uses 2" hose, and if you will be doing exhaust port testing, a blower port. A blower port is used to connect your 2" hose to the shop vac to use as a leaf blower, and is useful to use for exhaust port testing. Not all shop vacs have a blower port. You will find some shop vacs offer very high velocities on their blower ports. These higher velocity blower port models will probably give you the highest test pressures and flow volumes for flow testing. Recommended Shop Vacs
Can I use a leaf blower or dust collection blower for an air source
Shop vacs will give you the best all around performance for cylinder head flow testing. But if you are only interested in very high flow rates at low test pressures (large carbs, intercoolers or intercooler plumbing, air filter testing or exhaust manifolds for instance), a blower may give you a bit more flow volume, but only at low test pressures. Upgrading the FE2.0 to a FE2.5 or FE3.0 may be recommended too. For instance, a blower may give you 250cfm @ 6"wc, but only 8"wc @ 50cfm, while a shop vac may produce 35"wc or more at 50cfm. A shop vac will work better than a blower for low valve lifts on cylinder heads. A leaf or dust collector blower may only be able to produce a maximum pressure of 8"wc or less. An industrial blower will give you the test pressures you need and the flow volume, but these blowers are very expensive and require large amounts of power."
posted January 30, 2010 05:08 PM
we use shop vac type of dust collectors and they do not last at all in the saw mill being on a lot. we stopped using them. usually two sets of brushes and the motor is junk. good luck i did not think about blowing out for exhaust flow. just thought you would pull like the intake port. my bad....
posted January 30, 2010 07:09 PM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 31 Jan 2010 03:11
i think y2k needs to see the vid and give feedback
scott, how much snow do you guys have? my new polaris is pissed no snow for 3 weeks.
posted January 31, 2010 06:59 PM
Yes you can convert the flow to a standard test pressure like say... 28"
However, different things happen in a port at different test pressures and port velocities. So converting from one test pressure to another doesn't give you the whole picture of whats happening in the port.
Many times we have had to go to much higher test pressures to diagnose a port. Flow separation is a major problem when dealing with dog leg automotive ports. Not so much a problem on these bike heads.
Flow separation is when the airflow cant stay attached to the port wall due to the inertia of the mass of air and its inability to take a corner at a given velocity. Once this happens the flow gets very turbulent and the flow drops big time.
This is the zx14's problem.
Shane look at the short turn on the outer most intake valves on each end of the head. Look just under the valve and you will see a really bad short turn.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
posted January 31, 2010 07:13 PM
about 2.5 feet, we had a really mild week with rain that melted a lot. (WTF?) back to cold now, minus 28 C (-18F) yesterday morning before the sun was up. need to get the old pantera fixed....
Jim, have you reshaped valves for bikes or are they pretty good as is?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
posted February 01, 2010 04:27 AM
The valves on bike heads are back cut from the factory . So there's no need to change them they are good. The same goes for good aftermarket valves for bikes and automotive.
Its the factory automotive stuff that can benefit from back cutting.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
quote:
Shane look at the short turn on the outer most intake valves on each end of the head. Look just under the valve and you will see a really bad short turn.
I just checked that area. It seems like it is almost dished?? I wish I could photograph it, but I guess the only way for someone with my tools to view it is to make a mold of the port.
In other words, like there is no way the air is going to efficiently make that turn into the valve area. I imagine this problem is only compounded by the way the casting is misaligned?
This must be the area that might invite expoxy, or other tricks, to make a smooth turn that the air can flow around?
posted February 01, 2010 02:46 PM
On a different note, what is a really good flowing factory head? I might look out for some damaged parts, just to examine.
quote:
This must be the area that might invite expoxy, or other tricks, to make a smooth turn that the air can flow around?
I think this is where the larger seats come into play, they give a little extra material that can be shaped where you need it?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
posted February 15, 2010 11:43 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Feb 2010 19:43
In looking around at some used units, I see a few Superflow 110's out there. Does this unit flow enough to get meaningful results on a motorcycle head?
posted February 15, 2010 11:56 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 15 Feb 2010 19:57
Wow, I just called Superflow.
For such a polished website, the impression you get when you call really sucks.
The first number I dialed (from their brochure) said that the "number was unallocated". Then I dialed the 800 number...and got a message that sounded like a home answering machine. I was given the option to leave a message, and then it beeped like a home unit does.
I mean, this is the number that people call when they want to spend $30k+ on a dyno??
posted February 18, 2010 07:12 PM
i am absolutely, positively positive you could use a MAF sensor and a shopvac with some sorta flow control and make it work.
i just.. don't know how to make it work. lol
we tune our rolex cup racecar using the airflow stats.. tells real-time lbs/hr or CFM. VERY accurate. a large motor like a BMW V8 ( 7 series or suv) or similar large-bodied MAF would be perfect for flow testing.. problem is, how consistent is the shopvac at both vacuum and flow, and would variations correlate in a deviance in your MAF-sourced number?
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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posted January 30, 2010 01:20 PM
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