Shane661
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posted October 20, 2009 10:06 AM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Oct 2009 18:08
Wrist Pin Oiling?
I just picked up a spare set of 14 rods. I don't see any sort of oiling passge in the rod that would supply oil to the wrist pin:
So, it made me curious. How are the wrist pins lubricated? Do they just get their oil from the oil "sprayers"?:
If someone could shine some light on this, it would be great. Thanks.
Shane
  
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dougmeyer
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posted October 20, 2009 01:29 PM
It gets splashed up there.
Wrist pins are rarely pressure oiled. It is done on some industrial applications and on some race engines in the past. At one time, on one of the projects I worked on we actually drilled the rod up the beam from the rod bearing, but that was a band aid to fix some other issues.
See those little "arrow-like" symbols pointing down in the diagram? Those represent oil squirts aimed at the bottom of the pistons. This is mostly done to cool the piston dome, but also can't help but oil the pins.
D.
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Shane661
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posted October 20, 2009 01:30 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Oct 2009 21:31
Wow, there must be a lot more oil splashing around in there than I ever imagined! I guess it is the same deal with the cylinder walls themselves.
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wrongway
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posted October 20, 2009 03:02 PM
most racing rods have bronze bushings and have holes drill on the top of the rod to allow oil to get on the pin to get some lubrication.
The only steel racing rods I know of that are not bushed are nascar stuff and they use casidium coated wrist pins to prevent galling of the pins.
I put in Falicon rods when I put my motor back together after seeing evidence of galling on the stock rods and wristpins. I posted some pics last year when I had the motor tore down.
Roy
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Shane661
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posted October 20, 2009 05:20 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 21 Oct 2009 01:21
quote:
I put in Falicon rods when I put my motor back together after seeing evidence of galling on the stock rods and wristpins. I posted some pics last year when I had the motor tore down.
Roy
Perhaps I will disassemble the piston/rod assemblies that I have here. I might learn something. It looks like one of the assemblies (pictured) has been glass beaded.
I'll check it out in the service manual tomorrow. 
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whitehendrix
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posted October 20, 2009 10:40 PM
yup. the piston squirters in the upper case half and whats accumlated from the drain holes at the oil rings are pretty much what does the job!
those pistons and rods have definitely been hit with something,, sand or bead blast, yes.. i'd venture to say so.. wonder why?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 21, 2009 02:57 AM
Hopefully they didn't bead blast the ring groves.
If they did the pistons are junk, the rings will never seal properly in the groove.
ALWAYS tape of the ring grooves when bead blasting pistons and NEVER use a "ring groove scraper". If you have one in your tool box throw it out right now!!
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 05:46 AM
They only beaded 1 set, and I really didn't plan to use the pistons anway:
I got the whole set for $75. I figured that would be a very cheap way to learn something about removing and installing rings, pins, bearings,etc...without having to tear apart my motor to do it. I'll probably also end up with some spares.
Shane
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 06:57 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 21 Oct 2009 15:04
Ok, so I decided to take one of the assemblies apart:
This one was not a problem at all. I used a small jewelers screwdriver to pop the wrist pin clips out, and the pins came out easily. Ditto with the bearings, very simple.
However, of the 4 assemblies, the glass-beaded one is problematic. The pin is seized and will not move laterally. This was the first one that I tried, and I was pretty rough with it (knowing the piston is trash anyway). I could not get the clips out:
Hideous, I know....but that's why I bought this practice set.  Is it normal for the pins to be seized like this? How do you remove them when they are as such? The service manual calls for a piston pin puller tool...but should you really need one?
And finally, how do I remove the rod bolts?
Shane
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NOX
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posted October 21, 2009 07:04 AM
Don't remove the rod bolts.
ARC makes billet alum rods, we use in my daughter's stroker motor. It has a oiling hole on the top of the rod, that lubes the wrist pin, like they talked about.
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 07:06 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 21 Oct 2009 15:07
quote:
Don't remove the rod bolts.
I want to know how to get them out....I don't care if it is not the "right" thing to do. I want to learn how to remove them. Perhaps they should not be replaced, but I'm just trying to learn.
Let's just pretend they are damaged, and they need removed. 
Shane
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NOX
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posted October 21, 2009 07:35 AM
They are pressed in, have to be pressed out.
That is why you do not want to remove them. I can change the eccentricity (sp?) of the rod.
We did not remove mine. Rod bolt stretch is the main thing.
Karl talked about this a while back as well.
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 07:39 AM
Any idea of why that wrist pin is seized like that? Is that normal?
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NOX
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posted October 21, 2009 07:55 AM
Was it seized in the rod, or the piston?
Never seen one do that.
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 07:57 AM
Seized in the piston; the rod moves freely on the pin.
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NOX
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posted October 21, 2009 07:58 AM
Someone will chime in.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 21, 2009 08:08 AM
OK, its good that you aren't going to use that bead blasted piston. No big deal then.
The pin is a full floating pin meaning that it floats in the piston AND the rod. So it should slide out VERY easily. Many automotive style OEM pins are pressed into the rods and they don't have any clips. Those need to be pressed out. And to assemble them you heat the end of the rod and work quickly assembling them so you don't have to press them together.
In your case most likely the glass dust has got into the assembly and seized it up. So the pin will be toast also. Another reason to not glass bead blast. Or it could be that the pin is galled up from detonation or hitting the head etc.
Now look at the rod bolt. you can see the knurling on the rod bolt where the halves meet. This is like a small block chevy or any other domestic OEM V8 rod. The splines are a tight fit into the rod cap. This is what aligns the cap to the rod. Unfortunately this is not a good way to do this. This is exactly why people blow up so many bottom ends and spin bearings. The OEMs like GM have got away from this. Its far better to have a dowel like a Carrillo rod has where the bolt goes threw the dowel and doesn't control the alignment.
On this style rod and the zx12r rod, when replacing the bolts the rod cap isn't aligned properly anymore. If you were to simply use plastiguage you would see the proper oil clearance at the top and bottom (perpendicular to the cap parting line).
However, the rod bearings may be pinching the crank at the parting line with little or zero clearance. This will not last long at all.
So any time you take the rod cap off I recommend you have the rods big end checked on a rod measuring fixture. And if need be have them re-size the rods. Many bike engines have seen there demise because of this cap shift.
And if you replace the bolts there is no way you should not have the rods re-sized or at least checked. That's just crazy.
.
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 08:16 AM
Thanks for the input, guys.
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VincentHill
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posted October 21, 2009 09:36 AM
Shane, I come late to this thread, but you only need to get the Circlip out on 1 side and use a Pin Puller ti get the pin out! I have had them seize in the Piston and the rod. WHen it is piston only, Use a cut off wheel or band saw and remove the piston from around the Pin!
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Texas12R
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posted October 21, 2009 11:44 AM
+1 on the glass dust being the cause of
difficulty...... That stuff will go places you'll never
get to to flush it away!
properly done ....glass bead blasting will
only remove surface oxides on steel
and light removal on non- ferous material
but nobody I know wants to glass bead blast
@ a max of 40 psi.... and less than that for
non- ferous...
My .01 worth
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 12:35 PM
Is this a normal bearing wear pattern?:
Anything that "jumps out", or just par for the course?
Shane
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Shane661
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posted October 21, 2009 12:36 PM
Edited By: Shane661 on 21 Oct 2009 20:41
quote:
Shane, I come late to this thread, but you only need to get the Circlip out on 1 side and use a Pin Puller ti get the pin out! I have had them seize in the Piston and the rod. WHen it is piston only, Use a cut off wheel or band saw and remove the piston from around the Pin!
Thanks for your input Vincent. I bet you have seen more than one case of this back in your road racing days! This stuff is all new to me, and I still feel good about asking dumb questions.
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KZScott
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posted October 21, 2009 01:14 PM
when my pins were kinda stuck in my pistons after last season(galled up, pistons tagging the head a touch) i used a long 3/8 drive extension to pull the pins out. i cleaned up the pins and pistons as per bikeland guru advice and they worked fine this season.
tip, brake clean gives you a kung fu grip on oiled parts
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LOCK 2121
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posted October 21, 2009 04:04 PM
Late here but bearing's look like a run hard motor , lot,s wear how many miles??
maybe they glass beabed the burnt color off that piston it got to hot sized the pin.
drill your next set through at that flat land campfer the hole's , then they will oil better, some engine's have a oil hole in the small end by the rod boss but weaken's the area .
chevy had it both way's the pressed pin , pin's pressed into the rod , made for strong "T" like assembly, but didn't live at high rpm , full flotarer pin's are the normal for high performance motor's.
if the pin's seize often their , try drilling your own oil hole , rebalence on scales
just my 5 cents worth .
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whitehendrix
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posted October 21, 2009 06:36 PM
Edited By: whitehendrix on 22 Oct 2009 02:38
ya.. like Jim said, that ( and most, if not all sportbike engines) are floating pin.. should be able to pop the clip out and press the pin out with your pinky or a 3/8" extention.
bearing looks a lil beat, but not that bad.
why the hell thay cleaned that slug with a blasting media is beyond me. i have chemicals to do that.
a dunk, a spray, and they're looking like they came fresh off the mill table.
and like nox said about the bolts.. they're splined as to lock them into place.. press fit...
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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