entropy
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posted September 20, 2009 11:13 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 21 Sep 2009 11:27
ball honing nikasil cylinders
someone posted about nikasil honing and i did it this morning; thought some pics were timely
tied the block to the bench with big tie wraps:
GB's keeping an eye on things:
what i'm getting rid of, see the minor scoring
splatter on the plastic, notice the cool Kawasaki stopwatch Dan Millholland gave me, 45 sec of FAST in-out, in-out, in-out takes 95% of scoring off.
hmmmm... kinda like sex, honing just takes a bit longer
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Shane661
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posted September 20, 2009 11:48 AM
Edited By: Shane661 on 20 Sep 2009 19:48
Karl, what causes the scoring to occur? Is that normal with such low hours on a build?
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entropy
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posted September 20, 2009 04:09 PM
quote:
Karl, what causes the scoring to occur? Is that normal with such low hours on a build?
no idea, maybe it's normal from holding it at 12k for 10 sec on the dyno?
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ZRXDean
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posted September 20, 2009 04:26 PM
Nice setup. I thought the nikasil needed a diamond hone, learn something every day 
(heh heh, you said 'ball honing' heh heh)
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whitehendrix
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posted September 20, 2009 07:07 PM
what'd you use to lube the hone?
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Duct tape is the handyman's secret
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ill never own a busa unless
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BrooklynNYZX12
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posted September 20, 2009 07:11 PM
Entropy,love the ghetto torque plate and I guess its a great idea to beak the glaze but someone would have to weigh in and answer how thick the Nikasil coating actually is.Karl are you doing it dry or using something to wet the ball hone?I don't know about now but years ago some engine builders were secretive about their cylinder finishing techniques,prolly when piston ring technology was in the stone ages.Garage barbies lookin great as always,waiting for the swimsuit issue.
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whitehendrix
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posted September 20, 2009 07:21 PM
the nikasil i belive is only .001-.003" .. it's very thin.
i may be mistaken.. i'm not too up to speed on my bore platings.. i know class 1 anodizing is .001 tho.. pretty sure this is right there with it.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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tcchin
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posted September 20, 2009 09:27 PM
Nikasil is not a conversion coating like anodizing, it is a plating, and it' can be relatively thick, depending on its origins. Thin coatings are in the <.0001" range. Brush Research sells Flex-hone oil, but they suggest 30W motor oil as a suitable replacement. Note that WD-40 is not a suitable replacement.
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entropy
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posted September 20, 2009 10:12 PM
hey brooklyn, ghetto tq plate indeed, had to drill a custom hole in my bench. The big tie wraps to hold it down real tight.
i used motor oil for the honing and WD40 for the initial clean up, then warm soapy water.
Directions on the hone were kinda firm on not using solvents for cleaning.
Tim, any idea why no solvents for cleaning???
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NOX
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posted September 21, 2009 06:16 AM
I did it on mine when I put it back together.......
I ran 122 on a slick track sat night, spinning in the 1/8, it still runs strong.
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Texas12R
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posted September 21, 2009 06:20 AM
Solvents on your balls can cause them to fall off
BAHAHAHAHA
sorry I couldn't resist!
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entropy
Moderator
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posted September 21, 2009 08:52 AM
quote:
Solvents on your balls can cause them to fall off
BAHAHAHAHA
sorry I couldn't resist!
If THAT's the only problem with solvents, i am not at risk (61YO)
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osti33
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posted September 21, 2009 09:30 AM
Edited By: osti33 on 21 Sep 2009 17:31
Good post Karl. Thanks for taking the time to snap some pics. 
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tcchin
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posted September 21, 2009 10:14 AM
Edited By: tcchin on 21 Sep 2009 21:14
quote:
Tim, any idea why no solvents for cleaning???
Probably because they're afraid that someone using solvents, like a can of carb cleaner, will not clean the honed surfaces as thoroughly as someone who's elbow-deep in a sink full of warm, soapy water. The cylinder wall surfaces really need to be scrubbed and flushed with water to dislodge the grit, and cleaning with soap and water makes that easier to do. The water also will not leave a residue, whereas many solvents will.
BTW, where are the "after" images of the honed cylinder?
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Texas12R
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posted September 21, 2009 10:30 AM
It's dishwasher safe only if the wife don't find out
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KZScott
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posted September 21, 2009 04:03 PM
quote:
Good post Karl. Thanks for taking the time to snap some pics.
big +1 
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
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NOX
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posted September 21, 2009 04:40 PM
I put mine in a huge rubbermaid tub......,
Wife caught me in the kitchen though. I had to hand wash......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
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KZScott
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posted September 22, 2009 04:18 PM
repeat after me
"honey, my life could be ended by my bike blowing up. one of the reasons that that happens is from a part being dirty, and causing something to bind, then break. so if you love me you will want me to clean these parts as best i can, and the dishwasher does a better job than i can do by hand."
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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tcchin
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posted September 22, 2009 04:51 PM
I use the laundry room sink to clean cylinders, post-hone. Scrubbing Bubbles bathtub cleaner, plenty of warm running water and a worn-out (no abrasive left) Scotchbrite pad. Dry thoroughly with towels and compressed air, then verify cleanliness with acetone and a white paper towel.
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KZScott
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posted September 22, 2009 06:16 PM
ok, Tim has the win over the dishwasher
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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rgeorge
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posted October 15, 2009 12:26 PM
Edited By: rgeorge on 15 Oct 2009 20:33
Karl, I have some similar minor scratches and am going to try honing.
Did some research, here is what I found:
For deglazing the surface and knocking down high spots on a nicasil, but not removing material, use a 240 grit aluminum oxide hone. Spin at 700rpm. How does this compare to what you used?
Also, there are mixed opinions about wether the ball hone should be larger or slightly smaller than the bore. Comments?
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tcchin
Zone Head
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posted October 15, 2009 02:15 PM
Edited By: tcchin on 15 Oct 2009 22:44
I use a 320-grit SiC Flex-Hone. I adjust RPM to suit the stroke speed (easy, whitehendrix) so that the hone produces a 45* cross-hatch. The hone should be slightly larger than the bore so it self-centers and applies sufficient preload onto the cylinder walls. I've been roadracing the same motor for four years now, with at least eight rebuilds along the way (I don't have my records with me), and my cylinders have only grown a tenth or two in diameter, as I recall. Ring seal and break-in are never an issue.
Brush Research has a lot of good documentation on their website, and you can call them directly for advice, if you prefer. I spoke with a pretty senior tech guy (like VP-level), and I'm using what he recommended.
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2000redrocket
Pro
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posted October 15, 2009 02:21 PM
i know when we use to use kero to hone engines to rering the dam stones fall off well before you are done.we had went to the wd40. but that was a car engine.
the scuffing may be just from the thrust of the piston. i am thinking a bigger stroker is on the bad side of the rod ratio. what is it anyway?those short rods make them snappy in lower rpms.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted October 15, 2009 05:42 PM
We use diamond stones in a sunnen cv-16 which pumps coolant while honing. I'm not sure on the crosshatch angle. I could find out.
Watch the block temps when honing and measuring bores. If the block gets hot let it cool before measuring.
But you guys are just cleaning up so heat shouldn't be an issue.
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
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posted October 16, 2009 12:11 AM
ya Tim.. you had me at stroke speed, buddy!!
whew!!
Jim, i'm still dead serious on you adopting me and me being your shop bitch.
i just priced your little sunnen machine. saw one on ebay for $18K
you have it made in the shade man.
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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