MarkZX12RKX500
Expert Class
Posts: 159
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posted July 22, 2003 04:08 PM
Power Commander
What does this thing do give you more hp if so how much?
  
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9659
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posted July 22, 2003 04:17 PM
lol! that's kinda a loaded question.
but basically it allows you to remap the fuel delivery and ignition curves. it's much like changing jets on a carburated bike, except more capable. your HP gains depend on how ur bike is setup. on a bone stock bike, u prolly wont get more than a couple HP if that, but u can improve the rideability/smoothness. with a full exhaust system (muzzy, hindle etc) u'll generally get an extra 5hp or thereabouts. with a big bore kit, exhaust, filters, etc etc, it could mean 20hp or more diff prolly. but it doesnt make HP, it jsut allows the engine to produce all the HP it's capable of.
of course, a PC wont do shit without a good map. plenty of maps available for particular pipes etc, but u'll always get the best results having a custom map made up (= dyno time & a knowlegeable tuner)
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted July 23, 2003 06:54 AM
Unless you have a big stumble or flat spot (which would neccesitate a custom map anyway) I wouldn't mess with a PC at all.
Try your exhaust system without it - and if it's troublesome then buy a PC and while you are at it get a custom map anyway.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 23, 2003 07:01 AM
A PC is for Anal Retentive people like myself that want Electric Motor Reostat throttle control and the max power and torque at each and every RPM!
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ZX23rr
Expert Class
Mahogany Bomber Pilot
Posts: 242
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posted July 23, 2003 07:59 AM
exactly Vincent. btw, have you tried the map I sent you or a varient of it.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 23, 2003 09:31 AM
I have not "Looked" at my bike! I am accumulating parts for it and doing catch up work! Fixed my Piece ) trash car, Did a little to the Van, Actually got all of my tools put away and cleaned 60% of the Basement and finally play to install the Pulley on the Mini Cooper "S" this weekend after I fix the Altenator (Mis-aglined and eats belts).
I did look at them and see where flat numbers were used to control the off idle fuel curve, but the part I liked was the Ignition advance at very low RPMS. Never thought about that part of the Ignition and it really woke me up to looking at it! Serious thinking!
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted July 23, 2003 01:18 PM
Like frEEK said, that is a loaded question and he gave a great explanation, but let me give you my answer.
When I pulled my bike on the dyno for mapping it had my Muzzy pipe on it and a zero map (runs like PCIII isn't installed), it pulled 174 HP. After several hours a custom map which made it much more ridable (which is what I wanted) and it pulled 182.5 HP.
So did the PCIII add 8.5 HP ? Well no.
What it did do was adjust what was needed to get the most out of the other changes that were made to the bike.
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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saltire
Parking Attendant
Posts: 24
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posted July 24, 2003 03:25 AM
When asking the dyno shop regarding ingnition advance he says he has never advanced the ignition on any of the 12 s he has done .I would have thought sommit like 2.5 deg all through the range would be ok .When getting a custom map done i would have thought the the ignition would be advanced anyhow but seems not.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted July 24, 2003 07:13 AM
I've been wanting to do a PCIIIR for years now. I just can't justify $340 for 4-5hp. The bike used to run fine; but with the recent loss of MTBE & switch to Ethanol it doesn't run near as good so now I'm considering it.
Setup:
Bone stock engine w/K&N's & Akropovic EVO.
One of the things that's held me back is so many complaints of failures & folks getting stuck out in the middle of nowhere. As I don't have a bike hauler (& I frequently ride 100 miles from home up in the mountains), I'm not sure if I wanna give up the current reliability I have...?
The only pressing reason to buy for me is the damnned on/off "glitchyness" of the throttle at high rpm exiting corners. I'm afraid if I richen it up to cure that, I'll loose the shitty mileage I have now (just dropped from 34 to 30 mpg w/the gas switch.)
Suggestions? Talk me into it... 
____________
Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 24, 2003 09:03 AM
East Bay, WHen done right, you can remove the on off on throttle problems and get "Better" Mileage at the same time! The problem is (My thinking) related to the adjustment . timing of the cams. Somewhere around 5 to 6 thousand, the overlap comes into its own which makes the bike need less fuel right after it needs a lot! On my bike and the Akra Pipe, I needed 45% more fuel at 5.5K and lesser amounts just above and below and 5 to 10% fuel at the 0 throttle position above and below this area. Because the bike will get enough fuel, the throttle bodies are opened less, the engine works easier and from other adjustments, I could get between 35 to 40 mpg.
The newer PC3r have less problems for the ZX12R. DIfferent wires ect. DO not buy a used one or an old one, make sure it is factory fresh. Having the PC3r is 25% about Power, 25% about control of the throttle and 50% about havine "ANYTHING" that will give you the edge over someone else with the same equipment!
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vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
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posted July 24, 2003 09:44 AM
i will be selling my pc3r and opting for the MUCH MORE expensive YOSH system...with 3-way map switch.. since i run NOS i would like different maps
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saltire
Parking Attendant
Posts: 24
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posted July 25, 2003 12:47 AM
When asking the dyno shop regarding ingnition advance he says he has never advanced the ignition on any of the 12 s he has done .I would have thought sommit like 2.5 deg all through the range would be ok .When getting a custom map done i would have thought the the ignition would be advanced anyhow but seems not.
Your thoughts please.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted July 25, 2003 05:03 AM
Was looking through some of Zhooligan's posts:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=4288
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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saltire
Parking Attendant
Posts: 24
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posted July 25, 2003 11:03 AM
 Edited By: saltire on 25 Jul 2003 12:05
EastBayDave cheers for that , so what you recon dynojunk or what?
To buy or not to buy you pays your money and takes your chance after reading that link i think its 50/50 .But what i wanted to find out was why when getting a custom map does it not alter the timing on the 3r.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted July 25, 2003 01:24 PM
Well from the other posts I think everyone's busy up in the Northwest right now; thought about it myself (~18 hr. ride to make it on time if I left right now), but that wud be non-stop from Bay Area...guess not...
Anywayz; I'm sitting on the fence & your right, it's about 50/50. I know my bikes been running like shite since the fuel change here (MTBE to Ethanol), the bike went from 34-30mpg & just plain runs rougher, as well as slightly hotter (on the gauge.) Pipe's discoloring rate seems too increased, but that might be just pipe. So right now I'm still more likely to buy eventually. I like the easy hp & torque idea just by "plugging-in."
But geeze the vast numbers of failures seem to outweigh the successes by about 2 out of 3. At least 50% failure it seems which doesn't encourage me too much, plus DJ's record of poor customer service. Think I'll leave it for now for the remainder of the season as I have a tour up to OR/CA border area in a week or two & don't wanna get stuck...
Could just wait it out; maybe reliability will improve? As for as timing goes, I'm not technical to know but isn't the IIIR supposed to include that adjustment over the standard PCIII ? Thought that was pretty much the big difference....?
____________
Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted July 25, 2003 01:42 PM
Just my opinion FWIW.
I don't see anything to support claims like "50% failures". I have heard of issues of isolated failures in some of the early models. I'll let you know what I know, not what I've heard. My personal, first hand, not grapevine or bike board rumor experience is that the box works and is reliable.
I had an issue with one I bought in 2000 and installed on my 2000 ZX-12. The issue ended up being a pinched wire caused by the installer (me) and when I sent it back to DJ they told me of the problem, installed the box on their bike there, took photos of the problem and emailed them to me so I could see where I screwed up, then sent me a replacement unit. Free.
Service doesn't get any better than that. That box is in it's 2nd ZX-12 and have been trouble free for over 21,000 miles.
No offense Dave, but we both know unhappy customers will tell everyone they know they have a problem while happy customers will just sit back and be happy. Also people that hear the unhappy stuff will spread it a lot longer and farther than a story about something good. I think that has a lot to do with the stigma associated with the PCIII.
And yes, you are right the R model allows you to adjust timing along with fuel.
Let the flaming begin. 
Dave
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted July 25, 2003 08:49 PM
My opinion on the PC is tha tits a must have item. Why spen all the money on the exhaust and other parts then not be able to get the most out of them? It doesnt make sense to me. I spent the money and had a custom map made, my bike runs smoother and stronger than it ever has! And I have almost 10,000 miles on this PC with no problems.. adn If I ever have a problem on the road and it quits...I will just UNPLUG it and go back to the stock computer and run it home on the factory map......makes sense to me......just my .02 worth.
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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saltire
Parking Attendant
Posts: 24
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posted July 26, 2003 12:16 AM
Mr dyno operator tells me that ill need 3 runs dj250/tuning link, so as for the timing advance do i have to input this myself or will the tuning link put ajustments into the map.He recons he has never ajusted the timing on a 12 .
Confused.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted July 26, 2003 05:04 AM
quote:
Just my opinion FWIW. I don't see anything to support claims like "50% failures". I have heard of issues of isolated failures in some of the early models. I'll let you know what I know, not what I've heard. My personal, first hand, not grapevine or bike board rumor experience is that the box works and is reliable.
I had an issue with one I bought in 2000 and installed on my 2000 ZX-12. The issue ended up being a pinched wire caused by the installer (me) and when I sent it back to DJ they told me of the problem, installed the box on their bike there, took photos of the problem and emailed them to me so I could see where I screwed up, then sent me a replacement unit. Free.
Service doesn't get any better than that. That box is in it's 2nd ZX-12 and have been trouble free for over 21,000 miles.
No offense Dave, but we both know unhappy customers will tell everyone they know they have a problem while happy customers will just sit back and be happy. Also people that hear the unhappy stuff will spread it a lot longer and farther than a story about something good. I think that has a lot to do with the stigma associated with the PCIII.
And yes, you are right the R model allows you to adjust timing along with fuel. Let the flaming begin.
Dave
I was waiting for someone knowledgeable/professional to chime in! Figured if I exaggerated a bit someone would, & Dave did! No offence taken Dave; we're trying to figure something out here.
The 50% statement is obviously wrong, but I typically tell it like I see it- it does seem (to me) that too many people have had problems with the PC's. I'd like to see a poll on the subject so we can see what members here have actually experienced & get a solid number.
I'll surely buy the PC eventually; I know I have to. I've just been holding off hoping (as I mentioned) for the reliability thing to go away & for DJ's CS to improve. I have no doubt many haven't had a problem, but people without problems don't mention it like you say. So perhaps I'm only seeing one side of the coin...?
Let's do a poll guys...
EBD
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted July 26, 2003 10:12 AM
I guess they (Dynojet) only sell us good ones???
I haven't seen a 1% problem...yet!?!?!?
DON'T flame me...I (like everyone) have "heard of problems" that some people (VERY few) have had...
It only makes sense that we (on the boards) hear about "the bad ones"...
How many times do customers in any business call (or post) that something they bought..."worked like it SHOULD"??? 
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GOZR
Zone Head
GOZR
Posts: 716
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posted July 26, 2003 10:35 AM
Edited By: GOZR on 26 Jul 2003 11:36
with a good map it's a measing the difference.
I can't stop to ride the 12 it feel so good 
Dave get one it's a "MUST"
If you can't connect the pc to your bike , come down here i have mine in the garage
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-G
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted July 26, 2003 02:40 PM
GOZR, thanks offer; pm me ur e-mail/phone #. We gotta ride dude...
ok, ok, you guys talked me into it. Guess I'll start scanning e-bay or somethin'....
eh? didn't I hear recently someone had a used one for sale on this site?
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted July 26, 2003 05:39 PM
When would be the best time to have a custom map made?If done in the winter time would the bike lose alot more power in the summer than a map done in the spring?And if made in the summer time, would that lean out the mixture too much for a blast in December?
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted July 26, 2003 08:58 PM
after you have made all the other mods to your bike tha tyou are going to do.......I dont think the time of year is going to make that much of a difference....but make sure that any other mods have been completed, so you dont srew up the map tha tyou have made later....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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GOZR
Zone Head
GOZR
Posts: 716
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posted July 26, 2003 09:18 PM
Yes one for sale or maybe in labusas zx12
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-G
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