00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 22, 2014 11:44 AM
stroker or not??
Hey guys, I'm still doing research before my motor goes in for the 1290cc upgrade. I have the head nailed down on who will be doing the work. My next question is should I stroke the motor 2.4mm or not. I will be riding this bike about 2 twice a week year round in Tampa,fl. It does get quite hot in the summer. I'm a big guy at 6' @ 240lbs and could use the extra torque of a stroker as long as it doesn't effect reliability.
Please let me know your thoughts on stroking a 2000 A1 zx12r to 2.4mm,with the 1290 kit. (1287cc)
And please don't say buy a 14, cause it ain't happening.
  
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 22, 2014 01:48 PM
If you're not forever sitting at redline and don't ride much in general ... why not?
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 23, 2014 05:40 AM
Well, although I don't use the bike for everyday riding, when I do ride, it's usually for racing the guys around here and just balls out riding. It does spend a whole lot of time between 7000 and 12000 though, sometimes for about 30 - 60 minutes at a time
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 23, 2014 06:49 AM
For repeated high RPM usage I'd suggest a big bore and cams.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 23, 2014 04:35 PM
quote:
For repeated high RPM usage I'd suggest a big bore and cams.
Why you feel this way? Please explain? Based on what? What we have all seen in the past? Motors that explode like C4? Possibly those were built by short pecker short sighted men? Just sayin
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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FlaminRoo
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted August 24, 2014 01:29 PM
yup,, i know of a 4.6mm stroked crank that has made about 20 x 5mile passes at WOT on the salt, at averave speeds in the 190mph's,,,,
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 26, 2014 05:17 AM
Piston speed. Generally in Land Speed Racing stroker motor ZX-12s have not lived long. They make very good power and can lay down some numbers...but this guy sounds like a street guy....a big bore shouldn't change piston speed or affect longevity of the bottom end based on my limited knowledge of the workings inside of an engine. The 12R is a very oversquare motor, I think working with its strengths makes more sense rather than trying to make it something it wasn't.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 26, 2014 11:09 AM
 Edited By: Gunner on 26 Aug 2014 19:12
Well there's only really ever been one person that ran a stroked 12R in LSR and with the exception of offsetting the crank to match an offset bore cylinder there was very little if anything done to correct any of the problems that plagued the stroked 12R package that I'm aware of. You're not going to get a 12R stroker to live with off the shelf parts that's just facts of life. No one besides the one person mentioned above ever stuck with the 12R with an in depth engine program long enough to really iron out the issues that needed fixed. Putting personal opinions aside no one can think of everything and no single person or shop can be credited with extracting all the power from the drag and LSR standard motor ( Busa ) either. Had there only been 1 or 2 guys building Busa motors and at that for only a couple of years before giving up on that power plant it wouldn't have seen the success that it has seen either. Building a 12R is for lack of better words that fit here ( stupid ) I learned many years ago to NEVER build anything except the fastest thing you can buy and then only because you can't buy anything off the floor that's faster. That's just good advice that's served me well for many years now. In this case there's more than one stock motor that's faster right off the floor. So building the 12R becomes more of a labor of love than a wise decision. Why someone would do it will vary wildly because you are talking human emotions more than a carefully weighed out decision of where the wise money is spent. I'll be the first to admit building a 12R isn't a wise move but I'm doing it anyway because I feel the motor was abandoned far too early and because I feel like Kawasaki left a bread crumb trail on the right direction to go and no one picked up on it or if they did they decided the cost wasn't worth the possible outcome. That or I'm just hard headed and feel like bucking the system. Finding someone capable of doing the machine work and engine modeling for such a project is also like pulling teeth as no one believes in the 12R period. Those that have believed in the 12R have all but moved on to more plentiful and profitable engines to spend their time on. Then there's the fact that building an engine that wasn't their own brain child hardly ever gets much more than a half hearted effort from any ego maniac self proclaimed engine guru. But the possibilities are there and that's more than enough to keep some people interested. I like the underdog I always have. I like winning on something that isn't supposed to win. Reminds me of the guy that came to my shop with his friend to buy one of my bikes that I was selling at that time ( only to later buy back ) anyway this guy had a new 14 NOT a 14R just a regular 14 that had a built motor by so and so that made such and such power that had never been beat by anyone on this planet.. Bla, bla, bla and here we go... So I ask him if he felt like my pissie little lime green 10R had a chance against his fire breathing built 14? After him and his crew stopped laughing at me in my own shop I ask him yet again and he seen I was serious... The day we finally got together and set up this race he shows up with no less than 10 buddies to watch him -----------> GET HIS ASS HANDED TO HIM NO LESS THAN 10 BACK TO BACK RUNS FROM EVERY GEAR AND EVERY POSSIBLE SITUATION he could think of as the reason he lost.. He would make an excuse and I would agree to re race him under those conditions and the result was the same.. Finally his 14 just wasn't running right.. but before the racing started he was just bragging how fast it was running that day and how he had already beat X number of guys on every build Busa in town... POINT IS -----------> Never underestimate the underdog! The 12R isn't done just yet..
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 26, 2014 01:48 PM
Maaaan now I gotta go put Mach 3 on again.
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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FlaminRoo
Novice Class
Posts: 76
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posted August 26, 2014 04:19 PM
Edited By: FlaminRoo on 27 Aug 2014 00:50
,,,,,,,,
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted August 27, 2014 09:10 AM
quote:
Maaaan now I gotta go put Mach 3 on again.
Is that a A GAY BOY BAND?
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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shiphteey
Needs a job
Posts: 2529
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posted August 27, 2014 09:38 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbys870LGC8
YOU BETTA REKONIZE, HAYABUSA LOVER
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Gemini Motorcycles
Topping out everything from Ninja 250s to nitrous ZX-14s.
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00a1zx12r
Novice Class
Posts: 93
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posted August 31, 2014 07:42 PM
Over and over again I stuffed a gen I busa. Once I hit about 9000rpms, I started pulling steadily away.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 06, 2014 06:39 AM
the less you pull the pistons out of the bottom of the block, the better for longevity.
theres a lot more power in the 12 to be found, and a few of us are still on the way to getting more out of it little by little
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted September 06, 2014 09:21 PM
quote:
the less you pull the pistons out of the bottom of the block, the better for longevity.
theres a lot more power in the 12 to be found, and a few of us are still on the way to getting more out of it little by little
INTERESTING OBSERVATION..... But be careful saying things it can get you attacked here.. LOL !!!!! All kidding aside Scott you have done some impressive work with the stealth turbo 12R of Henry's. For a bike that has no money spent on it compared to the big money Busa builds it's showing a lot of speed. Keeping the system under the plastic was a nice touch
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There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
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Color Me Gone
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted September 19, 2014 09:18 PM
quote:
quote:
the less you pull the pistons out of the bottom of the block, the better for longevity.
theres a lot more power in the 12 to be found, and a few of us are still on the way to getting more out of it little by little
INTERESTING OBSERVATION..... But be careful saying things it can get you attacked here.. LOL !!!!! All kidding aside Scott you have done some impressive work with the stealth turbo 12R of Henry's. For a bike that has no money spent on it compared to the big money Busa builds it's showing a lot of speed. Keeping the system under the plastic was a nice touch
The Stealth street turbo is all Scott. It's not my bike. And all the design and hard work is strictly Scott's. I agree with you Gunner, very impressive.
cmg
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 20, 2014 08:03 AM
Thanks guys, I was very fortunate to be running a few parts that were Henrys (rims, tires, brakes ) but the red bike is my pump gas street bike. I plan on upgrading it over the winter to a stage 2 type build, getting a basic form of boost control on it instead of all spring so its more manageable in the lower gears, and let my old man try his hand at getting into the 2 club.
Henrys green monster is coming back out of retirement after a season off with a few upgrades. Hulk is mad a little 1199cc street bike went a bit faster. time to smash a few records up even higher
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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