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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: 1270 kit with akro & Ivans maps (comments)?? NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
00a1zx12r


Novice Class
Posts: 93
posted August 06, 2013 10:40 AM        
1270 kit with akro & Ivans maps (comments)??

I'm thinking of doing the 1270 kit with Ivans maps and cam timing. I'm definitely a power junkie but don't want buyers remorse. Or is it really worth it to spend the extra and go for the 1317 kit? I want a reliable bike I can use as a daily driver but like to light it up and stuff a busa or a stock 14 from time to time.

You guys have any thoughts, comments or reviews?

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Gunner


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posted August 07, 2013 05:18 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 7 Aug 2013 19:20
Thoughts would be.... Stay with a 3mm over kit from one of the better piston manufactures like CP, JE, MTC, You will need a good cylinder head done with a well thought out spring package not just off the shelf stuff. Get your ECM hacked by a someone reputable like Ridgerunner right here on BL. The 1317 package requires offset bores that make the life of the motor decresed and there's not enough power advantage to offset that loss. Offset bores create offset chambers and the losses keep compounding. In this case bigger isn't better. The 3mm kits have produced results that haven't been equaled by even the 1427cc stroker motors with the 4mm bores.. There's a couple of reputable builders that can do this for you and do it right. See Jim at Competition CNC he advertises here at BL, or Sal at ACE Performance he's in Florida and JIm is in Main I think. I could be wrong on Jim but he's definitely from up that way. As far as Maps from Ivan don't waste your time. Anyone's map can get you a motor that will run but the only way to to get the most from your motor is have your own map wrote for your own motor using the fuel you're going to be running and nothing else. Different fuels does have a huge effect on power of a motor and I mean from pump to pump at different stations not just different racing fuels which we all know makes a huge difference. Whipping a Busa or Gen 1, 14 will be no problem with a properly built 3mm 12R motor. Stay clear of stroking your 12R and it will live a good long life and be reliable as OEM.
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 07, 2013 08:54 AM        
Wow, that is a very cool reply. Thank u. Very informative. Just good information with no attitude. That's awesome. Do u have any thoughts on exhaust? There are so many to choose from. I use to have a zrx with the 1224 big block kit. The muzzy worked nice. Especially for midrange. I put a brocks street meg on and it was very peaky with nothing below 4000rpms. I was racing it all the time for the high rpm power. I just saw a muzzy carbon fiber can and like the looks of it. Any comments on the muzzy system on the ZX12??
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Gunner


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posted August 07, 2013 11:21 AM        
There's no better exhaust for a ZX12R than an Arata. They are nasty expensive but they are a true work of art. You can sometimes find one used for less but that don't happen often. Owen is the man's name at Arata USA that you need to talk to. He can fill you in on all the vital information on the pipe. I've owned both the Arata and an Akrapovic pipe at the same time when I owned two 12R's at the same time and there's no comparison in the two pipes in any way. Performance or build quality. The Arata pipe is the finest quality header pipe I've ever held in my hand and I build custom headers for ProMod race cars that cost several thousand dollars a set when completed. I've seen a few headers in my day and these are flawless. They weigh nothing since they are all Titanium and the power has NO HOLES in it anywhere up the range. The motor idles perfectly and never lopes or has flat spots in the power anywhere. There's merge collectors and there's merge collectors in this world and the Arata pipe has the smoothest interior of any merge collector I've ever seen. They don't do steps in the primary tubes like a Hindle pipe does and several others. The Arata pipe uses Hydo Formed primary tubes meaning they are tapered from one size to the next without any obstruction on the inside walls. They do not cut any corners during the construction of these pipes. You will get several opinions about what pipe is best but I always refer back to the bike I'm going to post a picture of below. This bike holds the record as the fastest Naturally Aspirated ZX12R on the planet and it's a 1290cc motor just like you ask about. It was built and ridden by the owner of ACE Performance ( Sal ) . When the bike was first brought to Sal for the build by the owner it already had a Muzzy Pipe on it and they scrapped that POS pipe and purchased the best pipe for the job. They could have bought any pipe made and they picked the Arata. The topic about pipes will get you more opinions than any other. Kinda like asking someone their opinion about hiring a lawyer. Everyone thinks they have the inside track on a lawyer. They have the best one in town and they're going to let you in on the tip of a lifetime by telling you his name. Same holds true for doctors everyone thinks their doctor is the best to ever practice medicine. Well Header pipes are EXACTLY the same thing. No one wants to admit they were have a POS header on their motorcycle.. The record books will speak for the Arata in this situation. That and the fact that the bike already had a Muzzy POS pipe that was removed and replaced by the most expensive pipe out there for the application. I got a screaming deal on mine from a friend that sold it to me at dead dealer cost way back in the day. I had done my research and knew it was the pipe I wanted and noting else. When I bought my second 12R it already had the AK pipe on it which is how I came to have a 12R with something different.. NOT saying the Arata is the best pipe made for every application because they're not. I had an AK on my 10R and was very pleased with it for that application. But for the ZX12R there's not a better pipe. There are other very good pipes but none better. I know that was a lot just to answer a simple question but that topic has spawned more internet fights than most any other. I'm trying to address all the replies on the initial post. I hope this helps.. And NO I wouldn't sell my Arata pipe for nothing since I would just have to buy another to replace it and they aren't cheap.


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00a1zx12r


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posted August 07, 2013 12:02 PM        
Again, another great straight answer. Just curious, are u in Florida? I live in saint Petersburg. I love the highway riding in this city.Especially at sunset in the winter
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Gunner


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posted August 07, 2013 07:15 PM        
No Sir Tennessee
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shiphteey


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posted August 07, 2013 09:44 PM        
if you are in fl it probably would be a good idea to give sal a call.
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tuusinii


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posted August 08, 2013 05:03 AM        
Whatever pipe you do get - get rid of the sticker and get it in titanium - looks much charper! And if pipe manufacturer isin't paying to you why advertise it

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Gunner


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posted August 08, 2013 06:12 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 8 Aug 2013 20:14
I agree with the Titanium can comment 100%. I've had both and over time the carbon cans look like hell. On the Arata pipes the decal is a metal emblem that's done on a sinker EDM machine and then hand painted individually by some tiny little Japanese girl ... LOL I don't know if it's a girl or not but the rest is true. That decal alone cost like $60 to replace. I know this because for a brief period of time I sold my 12R and later bought it back and during the time it was gone the guy managed to snag the emblem on something rolling out of the garage door and ripped the emblem nearly off. He didn't damage the can THANK GOD but the emblem had to be replaced since it's riveted onto the can and I didn't want to weld up the holes and discolor the can in two spots and I actually like the emblem.

There hasn't been a better looking motorcycle built than the 12R yet by Kawasaki. I am an admitted fan of the 14R motor but not the looks of the bike so much.
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FlaminRoo


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posted August 08, 2013 09:08 PM        Edited By: FlaminRoo on 9 Aug 2013 11:09
Gunner, when you say Fastest Naturally Aspirated, is that, no nitrous?,, and what mph did it go ?
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Gunner


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posted August 09, 2013 05:51 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 9 Aug 2013 19:53
NO power adders all motor 1290cc.. NO STROKER ! 3mm bore and all cylinder head and cams along with proper assembly and attention to details.

The standing mile number for this 12R is 212.8 MPH... SMASHING every record EXCEPT the first Loring 1.5 mile event where there was a 20MPH tailwind that gave out records that have never since been backed up by anyone.. No one claims those except the losers that think they really ran that number. This is why at placed like Bonneville Salt Flats you have to run in both directions to claim a record. That removes the tail wind or head wind issue all together. make 2 runs and add them together divide by 2 and you have an accurate average. The rest of these land speed events don't do that and a tail wind can produce false records.

http://www.aceperformance.com/
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 09, 2013 07:11 AM        
Guess what Gunner, they have discontinued the Arata pipe for the ZX12R. So the search continues!!


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Gunner


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posted August 09, 2013 07:24 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 9 Aug 2013 21:41
Go to this website http://www.aratausa.com/html/index.htm ask for Owen and he'll help you with the pipe if there's any help to be had. The parent company to Arata is a Japanese company called Striker they are the EXACT same pipe. It can be had if you really want one. Don't take the word of ANY dealer on Arata because in the last few years there has even been companies that have spread the rumor that Arata has went out of business which was totally false. Don't believe anyone but Owen when it comes to Arata. He's all things Arata in the USA.

More Help

http://aratausacom.host-manager.com/product.asp?productid=261306
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FlaminRoo


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posted August 09, 2013 07:49 AM        
thankyou for the information,, 212.8mph,, seams as though the "little" motors go hard,,,
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Gunner


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posted August 09, 2013 09:59 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 10 Aug 2013 00:13
There's been very few stroker 12R's live. A small stroker would probably do ok but the 4.6 mm stroke that everyone seems to build pulls the piston nearly out of the bottom of the bore and the short rod ratio compounds the issue many times by doing it's best to shove the already rocked over off it's axis piston out the front of the block before finally sending it up the bore. Before you know it the bearing is beat out of the rod and the rod is slicing the cases apart like a hot knife thru butter. From the minute you fire one of these 60mm cranks up the motor is crewing itself up unlike a stroker where you can run a longer rod to ease the amount of piston extraction and and crazy angles. The frictional losses within these motors is insane negating most of not all the added benefits from the stroked motor in the first place. Enter the 1287cc motor that makes excellent power from it's size and shows huge results when combined with a properly done cylinder head and assembled by someone that's not all thumbs, understands laboratory cleanliness, understands how to set end gap and properly clearance the bearings. Bring all those things together and you will have a 12R capable of whipping most everything rolling except other properly built competition.
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 10, 2013 01:27 AM        
Ok, I feel I have made my shopping list. I have come to the conclusion that I am not in the market for a $2000 exhaust. I just can't stomach spending that much.

Sorry here is my list based on availability, cost, and product support:

1) Muzzy exhaust with black m10/ race meg w/ PC3
2) BMC filters
3) Billet clutch basket
4) new clutch with HD springs to handle 190hp.
5) Advancer
6) new gearing (start with 17tooth in front)
7) nice new forged race rims. (not sure what model)

Hopefully I can get all this done for around $4500

For now I think this round will be a lot of fun and keep the reliable stock bore running good so I can first hand see all of the true power is has just waiting to be erupted.

What ya think Gunner??

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Gunner


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posted August 10, 2013 06:20 AM        
I think you don't listen... Muzzy makes the biggest pile of shit header pipe on the planet. I don't think he even knows what a merge collector is much less build and sell an exhaust that uses one. I didn't see anything about any pistons on that list with that said the closest you're going to get to 190Hp is typing it. The best that combination you listed above will ever make is 170's Low to mid on pump fuel and possibly 180 on MR12. I have no idea what wheels you're going to get at that price since my BST's cost nearly what your whole list is and the cheaper side on the wheels the Carro's are about half that. You must be hoping to buy alot of expensive parts used or for a price I haven't ever heard about... Tell me who told you the Arata pipe is no longer made? I'm calling the Bull Shit on that... Look it's like this... You buy what you want but DON'T PASS ALONG INACCURATE INFORMATION that could fuck someone else from buying the best because they read somewhere that it was no longer made.. When posting information like you did you always need to give the source of your information. Who told you this?
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 10, 2013 12:43 PM        
I called arata USA and they said the pipe was discontinued for that bike. It came to me in an email. However I was talking to a guy that worked for Carros' (was looking at there wheels) and he said that if I called akro they could make my pipe for me. Maybe this could be done from arata. When I called arata, no one was picking up the phone. I was getting very frustrated. Then it felt like the only option I had without spending $2000 on an exotic system.

Ok gunner, here is my deal. Come October, I'll have $5000 for the first round of mods. I ride mainly on the street in a spirited manner. I like to treat the city of Tampa/ st. Pete like its a big trac of straights, sweepers, on/ off ramps . Mostly looping around the highway from st Pete, Clearwater, Tampa, and all around the Bay Area.

What would u do with the $5000? Keep in mind, I will be paying for any engine work I have done. I can do simple maimtence, but my good friend that helped me do mods for free died.

So go ahead. I'm all ears!!!

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00a1zx12r


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posted August 10, 2013 12:54 PM        Edited By: 00a1zx12r on 11 Aug 2013 04:20
I don't mind doing the 1270 kit. That would be $1200 for kit and probably 800 to install. So there would be $2000. I need a billet clutch basket and new clutch. There is about $850 so total is now around $2850. So now I guess I have about $2000 left for a pipe and other goodies.

Alright, maybe I just answered my own question. I was thinking that some nice carros, would look sick. And lighter.

Just found a site called www.webike.net

It has everything.


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00a1zx12r


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posted August 10, 2013 02:45 PM        








Racing concept Titanium full exhaust
by STRIKER
MODEL : 6594OT50
(3 customer reviews)
Ranking #1456 in Complete exhaust systems

Save for Later
Price:
1,825.25USD
(175,000 yen)
Shipping Points: 26.3pts about
Usually ships within 1-2 day(s)
(this is if manufacture have in stock)
Fits
KAWASAKI ZX-12R
KAWASAKI ZX-12R
KAWASAKI ZX-12R

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Gunner


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posted August 10, 2013 03:38 PM        Edited By: Gunner on 11 Aug 2013 05:40
Webike does have a lot of stuff listed they don't actually have any of it on hand they simply place orders and flip parts. I purchased parts from them in the past.. BUT BE AWARE !!! You will get a bill from the IRS wanting TAX for the products you buy from them. It was about 6 months later I get a letter wanting like $600 for those parts.. I said fuck that I don't owe that on an out of state and in this case out of country sell... Guess what I paid it because they will rock your world. We all buy stuff out of state all the time without tax being paid but the law says we are suppose to and the only reason we don't is the sellers aren't reporting the sells information even though they are suppose to. I was told those days are close to over because the Gov is broke and they want that money. They are going to implement a new system to track EVERYTHING... The Webike stuff gets caught because it comes through customs... It's very hard to catch Owen at Arata but he will call you back sooner or later. He's a bit different to deal with but a good guy once you get to know him. I have to do the same thing you done. Call and leave a message and wait for him to call back. Once you're dealing with him he'll stay connected to you until the deal is completed. I do NOT doubt he's no longer stocking a pipe for a 12R since the bike is 8 years out of production here in the states.... But you can still get very nice Titanium pipes for a 1973 Z1-900 from Webike in Japan.. I feel certain you can get one for the 12R if you can still get one for a Z1..They can build you a pipe now getting Owen to order the thing for you may be a but of a bitch. Thanks for clearing up whom told you that and I'm going to be contacting Owen about jerking off perspective customers after I'm on here trying to send him business. Everything I have told you about the pipe is true they are hands down the best pipe made. I think Owen needs to drag his head up out of his ass and stop running off customers. Sorry for how he done.

Now on the carro's here's the deal on that... NO ONE and I mean no one builds many wheels for these older Kawasaki's that used non Radial brakes. Those bikes used different hub widths because they are all using flat rotors and radial mount brakes. A large number of the wheels Carro carries uses the same hub width or a narrower one. They spin the hubs down in house to match the bikes that the widest hub the carry doesn't work on. I learned all this when I was searching for wheels and considered those but I wanted the Try R wheel not the V-track.. Anyway I was less than impressed to learn this. The 12R has become a bastard bike to buy parts for due to it being out of production for 8 years and never really being a big seller.
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 11, 2013 01:50 AM        Edited By: 00a1zx12r on 11 Aug 2013 15:52
Ok gunner, if you had my $5000. What would u do to my bike? Like I said. I don't know how to do the engine work. I understand conceptually how everything works, but am not a mechanic. I do however love riding big powerful bikes. And love the ability to stomp on all the squids with their 1000cc sport bike and also see the surprised look of a seasoned rider on a 14.

So how clever would u be with $5000 with a shop doing most of the work?? And I'm all hears again.

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Gunner


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posted August 11, 2013 07:03 AM        Edited By: Gunner on 11 Aug 2013 21:21
You aren't going to beat a newer liter bike unless it's strictly rider ability. I've owned two 12R's and a Gen 1 10R at the same time and the 10R will GUT the 12R every where except extreme top end where you're seldom ever going to get anyone to race you to. The BMW S1000 is far and away superior to my Gen 1 10R and the Gen 4 10R is superior to my Gen1 10R... Now my 10R did have a cylinder head and kit cam in it so it wasn't stock.. My best STOCK motor 12R with the Arata and all the normal BMC's and Power Commander etc done to it made 174 Hp and the rear wheel. My 10R with the cyclinder head AKA pipe, BMC, Ignition, and Power commander, etc made 174 Hp at the rear wheel... Now the difference that makes the 10R kill the 12R. The 10R weighs over 100 pounds less then the 12R and you CAN NOT beat that with the same power... You may find a total squid that can't ride and snake him but that's just luck of the draw.

Talk to Sal at ACE Performance about doing you a motor package if you are determined to do motor work. You definitely don't have enough for wheels and motor work and the wheels aren't going to help you all that much. ( Perhaps think about this... Have Sal match up your ports and smooth them out only, then have him do you a top of the line 5 angle valve job( tons of power in a good valve job ) also have him spring it for you to allow for extra revs,, Leave the pistons alone if your cylinder is still sealed up good and tight.. Bump the compression up a bit and how you do that will be up to Sal. You can remover the base gasket or cut the head a small amount. Both will achieve the same result but there's advantages and disadvantages to both methods and Sal will best know what method will be best for you depending what he likes as far as chamber work if any at all.. The only thing the stock pistons will hurt you on will be limited on where the cams can be set due to shallow valve pockets and PTV clearance..

Just off top of my head I would..... Header Pipe ( Any thing is better than a Muzzy ) Seriously his pipes are total JUNK for a street bike. If you are strictly drag racing and nothing but WOT matters to you than his race sidewinder will do OK for you anything else he's a NO. His pipes are notorious for flat spots and jacked up idling. If you can't get an Arata at a decent price use something else. I wouldn't pay 2K for one either. I gave $1100 for mine new when I bought it. Contact Shipheety he posted in this thread for HELP on your parts! You NEED A TRUSTWORTHY PARTS GUY FIRST AND FOREMOST!

Power commander is a must have. Get your ECU hacked ( Talk to Ridgerunner from this site ) If you get some decent valve springs have your RPM limit raised. BMC Race version filters, ( Stay away from K&N filters for the 12R ) For street riding Gear the bike 17/47 ...... Make sure you have a New Chain in excellent shape and keep it that way....( Use an OEM ZX11 17 tooth front sprocket it has the rubber damper and don't whine like the others ) Get rid of all your chain lube and use WD40 on your chain.. You have to stay up on your maintenance. ... Loosen up the bike to roll free any bike that don't roll free WILL NOT RUN FAST! with the bike on a rear stand and in neutral the rear wheel should spin like a 10 speed bicycle when you put your foot on it and give it a spin.. To accomplish this you have to look at EVERYTHING in the equation and lay hands on it all. Wheel spacers, seals, Bearings, ETC! Make sure the brake calipers are retracting the pads off the rotors.. There's some tricks to do there that will really loosen up your roll..

It's not any one thing that makes a fast motorcycle it's a ton of everything that you have to touch on to make it fast.. Then after it's all done maintenance, maintenance, maintenance !!! I can't stress that enough. I clean my chain with Q Tips between the rollers and lube every pin a drop at a time. I also clean the built up crime off my sprockets after every 3rd ride. Grime on your chain is death for it and your sprockets. You chain has to roll off the teeth of the sprocket. Worn sprockets cause the chain to be pulled off the teeth and that robs power more than you'll ever realize. Seal your airbox up tight as possible meaning on the 12R taping aver the top of the filters as a place to start. Get the oil out of your air box meaning remover the crank case breather from the airbox and hooking it up to the Kleen air ports... ( Kleen air Mod is what I think it's called) It's worth 4 hp to do... I dynoed my 12R back to back never removing it from the dyno between disconnecting that mod and reconnecting it to see the difference it makes in the real world.. Opinions vary here but I've done the testing myself. Dump all the weight from the bike you can... Simple things like a Corbin seat is a NO NO!! Those weigh a TON!!!! Get yourself a Lithium battery that will save 10 pounds by itself!!

Weight is the key.. I'm building the worlds lightest weight 12R that I hope to have finished in the coming months. My bike will be under 400 pounds when done and appear to the naked eye to not be missing parts. It has cost 2 arms and both legs to build and 3 years of my time when I have spare time to build on it. Every part is Titanium, Magnesium, or Carbon Fiber... Not a stone left unturned and not a dollar left unspent either. The problem is there's very few parts made for the 12R anymore and everything is one off on this bike.

The things I have told you are based on things that work and give great returns for the least amount of money.. The bling, bling for wheels won't help you much unless you're going to pop for BST's or TOP OF THE LINE Magnesium hoops! They will help the handling more than the speed you're looking for. There's a few other things that I won't post openly here that can be done that will help... But do those things first and see where you are at.. You need to understand about making it roll free and making sure everything is always in top shape.. You'll never catch me out on my motorcycle where it's not ready for a race it's always an a 100% condition. This starts with keeping it spotlessly clean. That may look like a waste of time but keeping everything properly adjusted all starts with cleanliness. While you're cleaning you are also checking and adjusting it all goes hand in hand.. The first thing I check when I'm about to race anyone is the condition of their bike. If it's not clean the chance that it's in 100% top condition is slim to none and that tells me how serious I have to take the challenge. If a bike has a nasty chain with grime packed all around the wheel spacers that says just about all I need to know about the state of tune the rest of it is in and the state of mind the rider has.

At the end of the day it's your choice what you do and what you buy. The advise I'm giving you and anyone else reading this for free has cost a pile of money and a long life of doing this stuff for real to learn. There's more hero's on the internet than you can shake a stick at.. I noticed your post over at Kawasaki World asking about a pipe and I can tell you 98% of the guys there are complete idiots!!!!!! They all pat each other on the back telling each other how great they are and none of them knows where they shit last! Micron header pipe? PLEASE tell me they didn't say that..LOL!! PM me if you would like help and I'll break my own rule and guide you in the right direction.. ALSO PM Shiphteey and see about recruiting him as your parts guy.. He's a 12R loyalist and a top parts man..... A good parts man is critical to your success or the start to your failure... I trust Ship and his ability to get me the right stuff and I trust NO ONE! He's not my regular parts man I use Zach Millholland for parts because he's local and he's like a brother as well.. He's been moving around to different dealers in recent years and from time to time he can't get me Kawasaki parts as easy as Ship so I ask Ship for help during those times... If Zach were to retire from this market Shiphteey would be my number one pick and if both quit I would QUIT as well because doing this shit without a parts man behind you making sure you get the right stuff is nearly impossible it's that critical to your success.
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00a1zx12r


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posted August 11, 2013 11:50 AM        
Shoot me a text 813-480-3210. My name is Jason. I'm going to call akro tomorrow to see if they can still build me the pipe for my bike. I'll also try to track down Owen from arata. I heard tsugiki makes good stainless that don't hurt the wallet too bad. I see the first thing to do here is get the exhaust system, power commander and the clutch has to be done. Billet basket and the full pack. With stiffer springs. That would I'll probably 2500 right there. Then I'll figure out what to do with the left over $1500

What's your opinion of BROCKs?? I had one on my zrx, sounded badass and power was very peaky on top end. On the zrx' it dogged under 4000rpms, at.WOT. seemed great for the strip' but not for the street.

Hit me up. I'll keep ya posted on what I do.

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Gunner


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posted August 11, 2013 12:49 PM        
Brock use to sell pipes made by Hindle with his name badge on them. From what I've seen his newer stuff is very nice but keep in mind anything he's going to have for a 12R will be older style since the bike has been out of production for 8 years at this point. But it will still be better than the Muzzy.. Brock seems like a real good guy that helps his customers all he can. That's a value not too many companies do anymore. Once they have your cash they don't care what problem you may or may not have.. Getting anyone to build you a special pipe could take a long time and cost a lot so be careful. There are some that swear by the Hindle step header but I'm not one of those people. I wish Arata made a Stainless pipe but they only build Titanium pipes.
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