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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Cams grinding NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
supra5677


Pro
Posts: 1267
posted December 30, 2011 04:33 PM        
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=1506
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biggmoinc


Zone Head
Posts: 747
posted December 30, 2011 06:17 PM        
Wow, doug just threw a wrench in my plans....I ride 80% on street, I don't want a dog on the street! So with muzzy ignition advance n pc3 along wit muzzy ti exhaust, 1270 kit, doing a rge head is not streetable power only top end speed?
____________
07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com

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KZScott


Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7155
posted December 30, 2011 06:18 PM        
quote:
Hey Scott I ve seen Your topic on kaw forum.
Did You do YOur head by yourself or it was CNC job?




the motor rebuild thread? (Kents bike?)
http://kawasakiworld.com/zx-12r/45176-motor-rebuild.html
thats all me, no cnc



I have lots of threads, if you went digging up old stuff you may have seen me post about a cnc head that Jim did. I had a stage 2 cnc ported head on a 1380cc with bronze exh seats and 1mm OS valves(nitrous motor). big megacycle cams, over .400 lift
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted December 30, 2011 11:20 PM        
hey thanks for huge support guys,
I will leave OEM cams and just change gasket and port head.

Does zx12r have metal gasket? I bought light moded my bike
and I can see there is metal gasket.
I will post pic how it look like.
If this not tuning gasket how thin should I buy?


Scott is it diffucilt to port head by yourself?
I polish some rims and frames so I think maybe I could handle this.

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KZScott


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Posts: 7155
posted December 31, 2011 08:50 AM        
I would suggest milling the head to raise compression rather than use a thinner head gasket. better squish, and I believe the 3 layer MLS gaskets seal better. use oem or cometic. you should adjust cam timing with either method IMO.

if you are asking if its hard to do, you probly shouldnt touch it unless you do a very very light job. you can remove too much material and ruin the head very easily.
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted December 31, 2011 09:23 AM        
ok that what I think thanks for replay.
how much should I milled the head?
Can anyone send me on PM that famous article about porting?

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KZScott


Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7155
posted December 31, 2011 09:41 AM        
I would suggest .010 to .015 in. should put it in the high 12 to low 13:1 range
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted December 31, 2011 10:36 AM        
.010 to .015 inch ?

I will try to talk with some clever guys here (if I found someone) and try to milled it.
If no one will do this I will port head only and wait for BigBore in future.

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KZScott


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Posts: 7155
posted December 31, 2011 01:40 PM        
yes inch
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 01, 2012 01:04 AM        
thank You Scott I found some oldchool experts here in Warsaw.
Are there any numbers for porting?
I mean I have 3 options give head to tuning guys who prepare cars for racing
or to streetfighter build service or to old manufacture that regeneratas engines.
Best choice (price and machine work) is last one but I need numbers to tell them or how
much should they port it.

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dougmeyer


Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2680
posted January 01, 2012 08:09 PM        
agressor,
Again it's very unlikely that any "porting" you have done will be beneficial. The stock head is VERY good and just right for the stock size engine. I think others will agree when I tell you NOT to do that. What WiLL help, in addition to the head mill that Scott suggests, is a very high quality multi-angle valve seat grind. (Don't grind the valves- it removes the hard facing).You can also match the rubber manifolds to the port and VERY LIGHTLY clean the port without changing the shape. You can also LIGHTLY smooth the transition of the seat to the aluminum, but that's all.
I respect you for listening to us- it is a hard thing to accept that the stock engine is that good, but we've been working on these for years and have thoroughly researched this engine.
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 02, 2012 12:13 AM        
Hey Doug thank You for posting.
I was calling to shop and they told me they will mill head for good price it will be almost 2,6mm yes?
I was counting this from inches to mm I hope this number is ok.

I will also try to do this valve seats.
When head will be done should I degree cams to 105/105?

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Mikkel


Novice Class
Posts: 57
posted January 02, 2012 06:23 AM        
0,25-0,375 mm!!
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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 02, 2012 08:10 AM        
Wows that coulde expensive mistake...

so value is a 0,25mm

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 03, 2012 08:24 AM        
hey guys what with cams degree them to 105/105 after head milled?
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KZScott


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Posts: 7155
posted January 03, 2012 05:18 PM        
0.010 inch = 0.25mm
0.015 inch = 0.38mm

be sure to check actual compression ratio. if its too high unshroud the valves a little and measure again

105 105 works well. always check PTV clearance after setting cams!
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 04, 2012 12:17 AM        
Yesterday I was talking with some wise guy and he will do my head.
Milling and angle valve seats. Thas all no porting no polishing (no polishing?)
I will tell him to mill it about 0,010/0,25. I dont want to make to high compression.
I avoid that problem.
After that I will set cams to 105 and check valves.
Thank You one more time for huge support.

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KZScott


Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7155
posted January 06, 2012 10:14 AM        
you can port match and do a light clean up of the casting(polish) without changing the shape




____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 07, 2012 05:05 AM        
Thanks Scott for info I will do that.
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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 11, 2012 11:48 AM        
Hey, tomorrow I will take the head off and go with it to mechanic.
After mount it and checked valves and degree cams to 105 should I get back
no OEM ignition setup? I have it advanced to 5 degre max.

regards T

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KZScott


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Posts: 7155
posted January 12, 2012 06:39 AM        
I wouldnt suggest that much ignition advance with higher compression on pump gas in a street bike. a couple degrees maybe. at 5 degrees advanced, the stock timing map is running over 40 degrees of advance in certain areas

this is the ignition map in the stock ecu, any modifications alter this base map. if you have a manual advancer thats set at 5 degrees, add 5 to every number in the map


____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 12, 2012 10:56 AM        
Ok thanks Scott tank You for that info an picture.
You think I can modified with this picture my igniton to
make it adnaced but always lower than 40?
I mean when is almost 39,5 I will stay stock but when is
33,9 I will stay at 5 degree?
What You think about that?
I have PCIIIr so I can write some igniton map based on Muzzy advanced ignition map.

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KZScott


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Posts: 7155
posted January 13, 2012 11:59 AM        
it may not need an extra 5 at 33.9 and 40 may not be the max advance it will take. its best to tune it properly to see what makes best power. advancing the timing past where it makes the best power is not good for anything. just guessing could cause problems, or low hp, or both
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT rubber, Pump Gas NA..... turbo 8.47 @ 164
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R NA 1: 222.04 1.5: 226.39 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB

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agressor


Novice Class
Posts: 42
posted January 15, 2012 12:33 PM        
Thanks Scott for info.
I will upload zero map and then start to tune it.

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tuusinii


Zone Head
Posts: 958
posted January 16, 2012 02:21 AM        
By the way as You have 2000 model ZX12R that ignition table that Scott sends isin't accureta. That is for B-model bikes. Here is the picture of the '00 model ignition map.http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=23797&pagenumber=13 It's still litte unaccurate because it was made so long ago by ridgeracer. I can put the more accurate version to link when I have little time. It's still not in degrees but the biggest difference is that that 40 degrees advance is in much bigger area. When I flashed my ECU I removed that extra advance and it make the bike much more smoother to ride.
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