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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Kawi orders dealers DO NOT SELL 10Rs NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
Y2KZX12R


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posted December 31, 2010 11:40 AM        Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 31 Dec 2010 19:45
I'm guessing that the either the spring vendor deviated from the material or design specs on the production run vs the pre-production Q/C run and they were no good from the beginning.

Or they are noticing a fatigue issue and a premature loss of pressure over time with some that are in test engines with a lot of hours on them.

Or they could be experiencing some sort of harmonics that they didn't catch on the spintron at the tail end of the finalization of the cam testing phase.

Either way changing the springs pressure rise rate and harmonics isn't something that takes much time and is a simple fix.

Remember these cams are chromemoly steel not cast iron like all the cams in the Suzuki's and Kawi's to date. They are running a higher spring rate compared to most modern sport bike springs due to the large lift and valve sizes etc. The engineers have to carefully balance having just enough spring pressure to do the job and not having too much that will wear out parts faster and rob HP. The fact that they are changing the retainers as well suggests that there is a change in the springs physical dimensions or they are making it lighter or stronger. The fact that they are changing the cams suggests that they are changing the ramp rates (lower acceleration or deceleration) to be gentler on the springs.

They most likely had much debate over this very issue and it would have changed as the different cam profiles were tested.

But like I said, it also could have been a spring vendor issue.

Of course this is all speculation on my part.

Do you realize that this is the most powerful production motorcycle ever made? And not by just a few HP either.

Stay tuned.
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fish_antlers


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posted December 31, 2010 12:56 PM        
Thai springs LOL. Doh!
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LOCK 2121


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posted December 31, 2010 07:29 PM        
Inside sorce at new Kawai dealer , bottom line valve spring run on first production models, was found to have to high carbon content , factorys making the valve springs sometimes use scrap SKS barrels for the metal, some of those had high silaca content , and unrefined carbon molecules.
Sorry to blow your high their made from junk , run like scalded dogs, may or may not blow up, sould sell them in Las Vegas dealers only !!

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LOCK 2121


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posted December 31, 2010 07:32 PM        
Inside sorce at new Kawai dealer , bottom line valve spring run on first production models, was found to have to high carbon content , factorys making the valve springs sometimes use scrap SKS barrels for the metal, some of those had high silaca content , and unrefined carbon molecules.
Sorry to blow your high their made from junk , run like scalded dogs, may or may not blow up, sould sell them in Las Vegas dealers only !!

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TNCHIP


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posted January 01, 2011 02:16 PM        
Y2K how is the ZX-10 "the most powerful production bike ever made"?
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fish_antlers


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posted January 01, 2011 02:20 PM        
I thought that was the VMax?
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TedG


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posted January 01, 2011 06:16 PM        
I wonder if the mysterious neuter disappeared. I just read the Motorcyclist article and they say it is the best thing since sliced bread.
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fish_antlers


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posted January 01, 2011 06:37 PM        
quote:
I wonder how you can trust a fix that they came up with in a month when the engine they developed for four years doesn't work after four years of testing

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Shane661


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posted January 01, 2011 06:41 PM        
quote:
quote:
I wonder how you can trust a fix that they came up with in a month when the engine they developed for four years doesn't work after four years of testing



Obviously the parts weren't produced to the specs that KHI requested. But thanks for asking the question twice, lol.

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fish_antlers


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posted January 01, 2011 08:06 PM        
Didn't see a response - and we don't know if what you're saying is what happened. It's not clear if that is the case. It was my understanding that it was a design flaw - we need to find out what the reality is.
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Y2KZX12R


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posted January 02, 2011 07:16 AM        
quote:
Y2K how is the ZX-10 "the most powerful production bike ever made"?


What bike has made more out of the crate on a dynojet dyno?
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TNCHIP


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posted January 02, 2011 08:34 AM        
Check Akrapovic website,they run all the bikes stock and with their pipes installed.
The 2011 ZX-10R fell several ponies short of the S1000RR both stock and modified.
They are in Slovenia and get the full power euro version.

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Shane661


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posted January 02, 2011 08:43 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Jan 2011 16:49
Until the unrestricted bikes can be compared same day, same dyno, in private hands, I would say it is too close to call.

The BMW hype machine has been out of control for the last year....



The marketing has outperformed the bike....at least in private hands, it seems.

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TNCHIP


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posted January 02, 2011 09:06 AM        
I have had my S1000RR for 10 months and its not hype,the bike is very strong.
The Akrapovic boys got 179 for the new ZX-10 and 185 for the BMW,not that close.
I will be watching for the masterbike test this year to see if electronics can offset the
power difference.

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Shane661


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posted January 02, 2011 09:09 AM        Edited By: Shane661 on 2 Jan 2011 17:10
quote:
I have had my S1000RR for 10 months and its not hype,the bike is very strong.
The Akrapovic boys got 179 for the new ZX-10 and 185 for the BMW,not that close.
I will be watching for the masterbike test this year to see if electronics can offset the
power difference.


My local dyno got 162 for a 2008 10R...and 170 for a BMW. Stock vs. stock. Considering all the hype....that is pretty close.

As I say, BMW hype is out of control...still...even without the results in private hands.

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TNCHIP


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posted January 02, 2011 09:20 AM        
I would like to see an unrestricted ZX-10R on a local dyno myself but i dont think the
Kaw boys are going to make that happen so I guess we'll have to listen to Europe.
I think we may have went off track here ,I was responding to Y2K's post about the new
Kaw being the most powerful bike. As a HP junkie I hope somebody does eclipse the
S1000RR ,if it does I will put it in the shop. No evidence thats happened yet.

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Shane661


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posted January 02, 2011 09:23 AM        
There will be derestricted bikes on US dyno's before too long, I'm sure.
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SteveWFL


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posted January 03, 2011 07:19 PM        Edited By: SteveWFL on 4 Jan 2011 03:42
help me understand this "derestricted"?

Is that like some kind of code for "MODIFIED:" or "NOT-STOCK" or "FVCKED WITH TILL IT CAN HANG WITH THE BMWs OUT OF THEIR BOX AND BEFORE THEY ARE FVCKED WITH"














and by the3 way, BMW has the SCOOTER market dominated and cornered too, altho your vespa video above is cool and all. Aprilia is right behind them (like superbikes)


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RICH CRAFT 1


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posted January 04, 2011 10:10 AM        
I don't know if anybody has posted this yet but here are the engine specs for the 2011ZX10


Engine Four-stroke, liquid-cooled, DOHC, four valves per cylinder, inline-four

Displacement 998cc

Bore x Stroke 76.0 x 55.0 mm

Compression Ratio 13.0:1

Fuel System DFI® with four 47mm Keihin throttle bodies with oval sub-throttles, two injectors per cylinder

Ignition TCBI with digital advance and Sport-Kawasaki Traction Control (S-KTRC)

Transmission Six-speed

Final Drive Chain

Rake/Trail 25 Deg / 4.2 in.

Front Tire Size 120/70 ZR17

Rear Tire Size 190/55 ZR17

Wheelbase 56.1 in.

Front Suspension / wheel travel 43mm inverted Big Piston Fork (BPF), adjustable rebound and compression damping, spring preload adjustability / 4.7 in.

Rear Suspension / wheel travel Horizontal Back-link with gas-charged shock, stepless, dual-range (low-/high-speed) compression damping, stepless rebound damping, fully adjustable spring preload / 5.5 in.

Front Brakes Dual semi-floating 310mm petal discs with dual four-piston radial-mount calipers

Rear Brakes Single 220mm petal disc with aluminum single-piston caliper

Fuel Capacity 4.5 gal.

Seat Height 32.0 in.

Curb Weight 436.6 lbs.

Overall length 81.7 in.

Overall width 28.2 in.

Overall height 43.9 in.

Color Choices Lime Green / Ebony, Ebony / Flat Ebony

Warranty 12 Months

Good Times™ Protection Plan 12, 24, 36, 48 months

*Note: Specifications and pricing are subject to change.
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WARBIRD


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posted January 04, 2011 03:54 PM        
*Note: Specifications and pricing are subject to change.



.
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SteveWFL


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posted January 04, 2011 10:41 PM        
quote:
*Note: Specifications and pricing are subject to change.



.


+1

hehe before / after revisions and version #'s
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BobC


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posted January 05, 2011 01:51 AM        Edited By: BobC on 5 Jan 2011 09:56
quote:
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/industry-news/2010/12/29/zx-10r-s-problems-solved
fish your late

The "sales hold" on the ZX-10R will be lifted at the end of January with sales to resume as normal, Kawasaki announced today in a press release.

According to Kawasaki engineers, the problem with the ZX-10R arose when they found a "possible surging of the intake valve spring when the unit is operated under unique riding conditions, such as on a racetrack. The surge could cause the intake valve to seat improperly, resulting in poor engine performance."

Kawasaki is replacing the camshaft, valve springs, and spring retainers to prevent the valve surging - and none of the changes affect engine performance, Kawasaki says.

On December 11, Kawasaki issued a release stating that a "technical hold" was being placed on the bike, but gave no details as to what the problem was. At that point, unsold units were sent back to KMC warehouses and those who had already taken delivery of the new bike were told to return them to dealerships for a full refund.



So, all the bikes on hold in warehouses around the world are to have inlet camshafts, springs etc replaced.

Who will be doing that? A team from KHI on the warehouse floor, or the dealer? Either of those options would cause me concern if I were buying a new bike.

How many bikes is it that will need to be un-crated, top end stripped, parts exchanged and then re-shimmed and tested? It's a huge undertaking.
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Y2KZX12R


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posted January 05, 2011 05:10 AM        
Maybe they will swap out the engines and sell the engines that come out for race engines without the intake cams, springs or retainers in them? Re-stamp the serial number box as a race only engine.
They could sell them to the dwarf car markets.

Where do I sign up for one of those?
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NINJA12


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posted January 05, 2011 12:44 PM        
How about KAWI might have a pre shimmed head and cam package ready to swap, any dealer could handle that. They could recycle the heads from unsold bikes, as that would be a very cheap solution.
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Big_T112


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posted January 06, 2011 01:47 PM        
Have the vendor pay for it.
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