mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 15, 2009 05:14 PM
 Edited By: mrjobe on 16 Jun 2009 01:15
Ping Entropy or Others Big Bore Stroker Ignition/dyno ????
Entropy or others who know:
KZscott refered me to you. He says you've done alot of testing with big ZX-12 motors.
Motor Specs: 1394cc w/falicon crank, JE pistons, muzzy 00 race cams & valves/etc, ape adjusters, mild port work & a muzzy sidewinder.
I'm looking for ignition timing advise as my bike only dyno'd 180. (I used C16 think its what was recomended...I was supposed to use C12)
Part of my problem is the map. I replaced the motor due to a spun bearing. So I installed the 1394 and took it to the dyno. The map I had was for a stock 12 with a hindle.
Heres what I dont understand.
The dyno tuner tuned by A/F. The A/F is a pretty flat 13:1. He smoothed out the graph and gained 7hp. The A/F looks good, the torque looks good, but the hp jumps to 155 @ 4k (I dont mind that) but gets bumpy up until 10k.
How much would timing and the right fuel effect the graph if the A/F is already so good?
The builder claims he ran low 8's @ 160 and that the motor should be in the 220 range. He says he ran 44 degrees and recomended I start @ 32 and work my way up and that with ignition tunning, then fuel, then ignition again it should put up some impressive #'s.
I'm not sure just how to go about that.
I have a PC3 USB. Should I get the ignition module or go with a PC3r?
Would you have a good map I could try?
heres the dyno graph: ( http://www.geocities.com/pawnpusher71/untitled.bmp )
  
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 15, 2009 05:51 PM
is there an adjustable timing plate on the bike? (by the crank trigger)
get your tuner to go a bit richer. 12.7:1 ish
that motor was also using a sidewinder... what version of hindle are you running? the street one doesnt make much HP compared to the step tube
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 17, 2009 04:36 PM
bump, Karl must be busy, hes usually in the dragbike zone here
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 17, 2009 04:54 PM
I think I'll go ahead and buy and ignition module.
The bike had a stock motor with a hindle pipe. Now it has a built motor with sidewinder.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 17, 2009 10:45 PM
mrjobe,
i am no expert, but a couple observations:
1. yr dyno sheet shows a STD correction of 1.06, but the display is "power(hp)" which i believe is uncorrected.
2. timing adv will gain a max? of 6-8-ish hp on my motor.
3. fuel differences might account for 10-ish hp
1st thing i'd do is a cold compression test, get a ball park idea of what compression ratio yr motor is. No sense whatever in playing with different fuels without having a very good idea of what yr motor needs wrt octane.
2nd i'd do a leakdown to assure that motor is healthy
3rd thing i'd do is get yr dyno guy to output another dyno sheet in STD, or get the run file from him and open it in Runviewer.
buying the ignition module is the right thing to do in any event; depending upon yr CR, that motor ought to like something around 5's in the ign module.
good luck, and sorry it took me so long to respond, been busy.
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mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 19, 2009 08:33 AM
Thanks entropy.
The builder says the CR 13.8:1 and the motor was freshend up at the end of last season.
I get zero smoke, no knock/noise, and the bike pulls a whole lot harder a whole lot sooner han the stock motor did. Where is used to come on @ 7K it now comes on @ 4K.
I'll get the module on order.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted June 19, 2009 12:16 PM
Ouch, before you spend money on stuff, be sure to do like Karl says, especially number 2.
I am an idiot, but it seeems like something is not right.
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TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 19, 2009 04:31 PM
jobe,
did you check the dynosheet?
if that is uncorrected hp, you are showing about 10hp less than it would in STD
at 13.8 you can easily run 93 octane pump gas and gain hp
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mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 19, 2009 06:35 PM
I'll get with the dyno guy tomorrow. I am not sure if its corrected or not?
I was told that dynojet dynometers are 20% conservative. Have you ever heard that?
The builder recomended C12 or 91+104 octane booster. Using C16 was my mistake.
The bike was is soooo much faster than it was before. I didnt have it dyno'd stock so I dont have a baseline to compare it too.
What I still find odd is that the blue dyno run would have been with a stock+pipe map. Wouldnt this new motor need an entirely different map?
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Johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted June 19, 2009 08:28 PM
that is corrected but some things do not make sense temp and humidity
but I hate to say this i have got ore ot of sock cams head and a 1290
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted June 21, 2009 04:56 AM
Weird how the hp peaks so early and yet the torque remains flat at those rpms. Any idea what cam timing numbers your builder went with?
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mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 21, 2009 07:52 AM
104/105 +/- on the cams. Just under what muzzy recomends. claims he gets better 60' times.
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Tazio
Parking Attendant
Posts: 18
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posted June 21, 2009 08:13 AM
You're reading the graph wrong! The upper lines are the torque curves and the lower, smoother lines are the horsepower curves. The horsepower @ 4000 is about 63, not 155.
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Tazio
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mrjobe
Parking Attendant
Posts: 9
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posted June 21, 2009 03:46 PM
Wow! Im surprised nobody noticed that? Thats my mistake, its my first dyno graph & I assumed the larger graph was the bigger #.
Thanks for pointing that out.
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squidbilly
Parking Attendant
super modified
Posts: 17
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posted July 03, 2009 07:17 PM
I have a very similar set up I would run it richer for sure 12 to1. Dyno guys always run them lean I have spent a lot of time at the track tuning and I can tell you that my bike picked up mph when I richened it up. Total I add 9 degrees of timing. Those cam degree numbers dont sound right at all mine are 110/109 at 50. After all that I will tell you dyno numbers dont mean squat! make sure the air fuel is safe on the dyno then get it on the track. That motor should hit atleast 150mph in the quater!
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mrsantafe
Zone Head
Posts: 521
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posted July 04, 2009 12:07 PM
Is this on a dynojet 250i?
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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