wheelieking
Novice Class
Posts: 41
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posted April 14, 2009 06:43 PM
2001 12 bhp VS 08 Busa Dyno Run btb
Since I have slowed quite a bit lately and do not get a chance to compare my 01 to anything new on the open road I wanted to see the power difference of my 01 12 and my friends 08 busa with slip ons on a dyno. We went back to back and I was only 3hp down from his figures. The amounts (bike has dyno'ed from 163-201 (stupid I know)) do not matter becuase all dyno's are different. I was very stoked to know that my "old" busa killer (proven on open road several times) was close to the new hp king. Given the weight difference I think roll ons would be pretty close. I though he would have me by at least 8-10 hp. I have full race Apropovic, BMC race.. and PWIIIR. I also have around 29k miles on the clock. I guess we wont see the big hp gains from the late 90's to early 2k's. Todays bike are just a lot more refined. The hp was still increasing all the way to redline.. showing that if the rpms went higher the power would have went up as well. One hell of an engine!
  
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whitehendrix
Zone Head
fails!
Posts: 757
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posted April 14, 2009 08:34 PM
sick.. gotta love that!!
i love watching "older" bikes (no matter what gen or age..) whoop up on new shit. LOVE it.
especially a 12 against a busa.
bet that dropped a jaw or 3 
____________
Duct tape is the handyman's secret
weapon. The black is for formal
occasions. - ZRXDean
ill never own a busa unless
someone gives me one.... and then
ill sell it -KZScott
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 15, 2009 06:33 AM
How did the torque curves and low rpm power stack up?
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 15, 2009 12:42 PM
Reality is...................the 08 would be 8 - 10 hp more if it had a full exhaust like ur 12. No way would a stock other than exhaust n pc would make the same power as an 08 busa.. Just my opinion, I have a 1270 n hoping to be close to the 08 busa. (1270 vs 1340)
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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wheelieking
Novice Class
Posts: 41
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posted April 15, 2009 07:34 PM
quote:
Reality is...................the 08 would be 8 - 10 hp more if it had a full exhaust like ur 12. No way would a stock other than exhaust n pc would make the same power as an 08 busa.. Just my opinion, I have a 1270 n hoping to be close to the 08 busa. (1270 vs 1340)
either I have a ringer.. or he has a pig.. or you have a pig.. I think that a piped 12 with a good map/filter combination comes close to the stock Busa. Well in reality I know. My good friend (busa) would be glad to comment as well. I figured I would see this kind of reply. We dynoed within 5 minutes apart. Dont take the magazines info as the bible when it comes to power. Dynos are bs anyways. I just wanted to see the difference between the two. His old busa was always around 7-10 hp down from my bike as well on back to back runs. I have always thought about the 1270 kit. I would be very suprized that if your bike is tuned right that if you ran back to back that you would not come out with more hp. I was shocked at the results as well. If he had a full system it would of course be further apart. I am just stoked that I am close to a stock (slip on) busa. I am shocked that there is doubt.
Someone else asked about lower to mid range. The dyno run did not have rpms.. just mph. At around 100mph he had 10-13 more hp than I did.. killer mid range/upper. Will post the graphs if I have time if anyone cares.
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Shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted April 16, 2009 12:24 PM
 Edited By: Shane661 on 16 Apr 2009 20:24
Peak hp is close on the 12R and the newer bikes. But the12 doesn't have the torque and that is what hurts it at the dragstrip.
A 12R with a pipe will come close to the stock Busa...or even take it by a hair. But when you put a full pipe and good tune on the Busa, it will definitely wallop the 12 everywhere in the powerband.
Shane
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 18, 2009 06:14 AM
All i was sayin is ur bike had a full exhaust compared to the basically stock busa, Urs should have better numbers, thats all i m sayin. I might have a pig too, lol. 240 tire slows me down a little but i still run wit em on the highways, But as far as an 08 busa, why compare a 12 to it when everyone is comparing the 14 to it in horspower. A 12 cant touch the 14 so why think it would the new gen busa. the older 12 would definately need a pipe, filter, n pc to even be close. Dynos are a no no anyway, u never know what one bike is getting from the ram air effect either. u might get better peak numbers but the ridable hp suffers. The 12 had more hp than the older gen busa anyway but that didnt stop the busa from beatin it up in top speed shootouts did it? a 1270 kit will only give u 10 to 15 hp, I am at 171 wit a rich map in my 1270, ( rebuilt twice not goin for a 3rd), lol. i read all the time that someone stock 12 has these numbers, I might just got a pig, i lose mayb 10 or so wit the wide tire but i dont often race, i look good, lol. N dont get me wrong, even though i dont race, nobody has even asked. If i was lookin to kick butt, i wouldve got a 1000 to whip up on everybody, the power to weight is ridiculous. Try hp numbers wit a 07 or newer 1000, i bet ur 12 would be shook up what happens next
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 18, 2009 06:21 AM
1198 to a 1340, come on now, the 14 is only a 1342 i believe. when u guys race each other do u ever win? As far as rollons the 08 busa would pull u early just because of torque, they get into their torque alot earlier than our 12, u have to rollon above 7500 to stay close. Like i said i m just guessin so if u prove me wrong i wont b mad at u, lol. I luv my 12 n not to many bike meets i go to on the north east coast have many of them. I would never get rid of it (just because i got to much $ in it, lol) i would get the 14 n turbo it if i was to do another one.
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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ZuminaZX
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted April 18, 2009 03:03 PM
and stroker kit would own them all.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted April 18, 2009 09:39 PM
sofar no older gen busa has dynoed close to mine with full system brock and brock map.
was only 2 hp higher than my stock pull it was a 99 and it was just after my pull. wish i had the torque he has.that is why i have a 1270 kit now.
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 19, 2009 05:44 AM
if u want real torque go with the stroker zuminazx was talkin bout, I wasnt extremely happy wit my 1270 but at the same time i put the 240 on so the difference in the two i wouldnt know exactly, plus the spockets that came wit the 240 made the overall gearing taller than it was stock, plus 6in stretch. oh well, she will still get it, since then i added 5 teeth on the back which made it 2.76 now, n wit the 18in instead of the stock 17in rear tire the miles an hour at a certain rpm is close to a stock 12 wit 17 front n 46 back (2.71). who all has an brock alien head exhaust n will it fit on a muzzy header wit no problem, i luv the sound but dont want to pay over 1k for a full exhaust just want to swap out the cans
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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wheelieking
Novice Class
Posts: 41
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posted April 19, 2009 07:30 AM
quote:
Peak hp is close on the 12R and the newer bikes. But the12 doesn't have the torque and that is what hurts it at the dragstrip.
A 12R with a pipe will come close to the stock Busa...or even take it by a hair. But when you put a full pipe and good tune on the Busa, it will definitely wallop the 12 everywhere in the powerband.
Shane
I would agree with you here....
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted April 20, 2009 05:32 AM
Comment on 1270 (Muzzy) torque...
I Run close to 14:1 CR, not too much advance (under +4) and plenty of fuel (12.7-12.8:1) and cam timing 105.5 in./ 100 ex.
100 ft. lbs comes by 4,000 rpm, peak of 111 at 7,600 rpm...H.P. up top is 190-200 depending on dyno.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted April 20, 2009 02:06 PM
i like them numbers. care to elaborate on the cam timing numbers?
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted April 21, 2009 05:27 AM
These were timing numbers from Muzzy early on....MORE power under peak. 105/105 came later for the H.P. junkies.
The C.R. is were the secret is at IMHO. Just be sure to properly prepare your piston tops to minimize hot spots.
PTV is comfortable, piston to head is close at .027-.030!! Put it this way....the last time I pulled the head, no carbon could build up in the quench areas.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 22, 2009 02:53 AM
Those R some really good numbers out of the 1270, I NEED a different mechanic, lol. Shouldnt have been to hard wit a R&R kit from muzzy. I went from stock 152 hp n 83 ft wit a little blowby on number 3 piston (reason for rebuild) to 171hp n 96 wit a 240 tire on it, dont know what it wouldve been wit the 200. My peak torque was at 7500-7600. like wheelieking said, i just might have a pig, lol
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted April 22, 2009 06:41 PM
my 02 ZX12R with Muzzy, PCIII, 4degrees in a mechanical advance, and Kleen air removed, made 180.1 HP with 98 FT LBS of torque at STock Mild to Wild in Jax FL.....
My 01 is making 183.3 with 96 ft lbs of Torque with a TiForce exhaust, stacks, PCIII, and a few other tweaks. The 01 has aftermarket wheels on it, which I think makes a difference.
The 01 was dyno'd in Nashville TN.
A good tune is important, the 01 makes MORE power, but the 02 was smoother and easier to use......
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted April 25, 2009 05:20 AM
quote:
Those R some really good numbers out of the 1270, I NEED a different mechanic, lol. Shouldnt have been to hard wit a R&R kit from muzzy. I went from stock 152 hp n 83 ft wit a little blowby on number 3 piston (reason for rebuild) to 171hp n 96 wit a 240 tire on it, dont know what it wouldve been wit the 200. My peak torque was at 7500-7600. like wheelieking said, i just might have a pig, lol
You don't need a different mechanic... you need to stop robbing power from the engine with that monster 240 tire. As for the 1270... simply dropping in pistons will only get you 8-10rwhp. The magic is in the headwork and bigger cams to feed the extra displacement. A healthy 1270-1287 with headwork and cams will give you approx. 20-25rwhp over a stocker with a quality full exhaust (slip-on's are a no-no for built engines).
It's all in the COMBO not just increased displacement.
As for comparing the Gen 2 Busa to the ZX-12R..... CC vs CC the ZX-12R still produces more power due to it's extremely oversquare bore/stroke ratio that allows it to make big power up top via RPM at the cost of low and midrange power.
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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biggmoinc
Zone Head
Posts: 747
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posted April 25, 2009 09:04 AM
yeah, i would agree, the head was only mildly touched n didnt change cams, only did the adjustable cam sprockets. What cams r u runnin, n have u raised ur rpm limit, if so does ur bike hp go all the way up to the new rev limit or flattens out short of it?
n i would also agree to CC vs CCs but i was thinkin bike to bike. The CCs cant be compared to the bike against another bike, its win or lose, right? Its not like u can cut the 1340 cc short to 1198 or 1270, lol
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07 ZX14 bmc filter, muzzy m14, 16/44,66",auto shift, 6'3, 204lbs/1.54/3.99/6.03@120/7.8/9.32@147
biggmo@aol.com
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted April 26, 2009 07:01 AM
quote:
You don't need a different mechanic... you need to stop robbing power from the engine with that monster 240 tire. As for the 1270... simply dropping in pistons will only get you 8-10rwhp. The magic is in the headwork and bigger cams to feed the extra displacement. A healthy 1270-1287 with headwork and cams will give you approx. 20-25rwhp over a stocker with a quality full exhaust (slip-on's are a no-no for built engines).
It's all in the COMBO not just increased displacement.
I agree!
I do run stock cams. However, they are degreed. Proper port clean up, No base gasket, piston treatment, timing and a good map do wonders over just dropping in the kit.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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Fantomet
Expert Class
zx12r2000
Posts: 119
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posted April 27, 2009 01:08 AM
I have a question!
A new busa - and a new zx14 - who will win? Both stock.
On the track and on the dyno.
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2000 12
KNfilter
Full Muzzy
Pc3
180rwhp
Step aside folks - comin through!!
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted April 27, 2009 04:09 PM
quote:
yeah, i would agree, the head was only mildly touched n didnt change cams, only did the adjustable cam sprockets. What cams r u runnin, n have u raised ur rpm limit, if so does ur bike hp go all the way up to the new rev limit or flattens out short of it?
n i would also agree to CC vs CCs but i was thinkin bike to bike. The CCs cant be compared to the bike against another bike, its win or lose, right? Its not like u can cut the 1340 cc short to 1198 or 1270, lol
The detailed specs on my engine are classified but general specs are available at www.TheShinobiExperiment.com. I do rev well over the stock 11.6k rev limiter and the bike continues to make power all the way to the new rev limiter. In fact, even in 6th gear at a certified 200+mph... it slams into the extended rev limiter.
As for the CC vs CC thing, it relates to when you compare a :
1287cc ZX-12R vs 1299cc Busa
1340cc ZX-12R vs 1340 Gen 2 Busa
1361cc ZX-12R vs 1363 Gen 1 Busa
It's all in the RPM.....
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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