posted August 24, 2002 05:32 AM
False Neutral Fix!!! After experiencing all the symptoms that everyone has complained about with the zx12, i have found the culprit. This fix addresses the "chain jumping a tooth", "False Neutrals", and "general missed shifts".
Turns out that the tranny is a "user item" like a chain or tire. It will always wear out!!! On our bikes however, the tranny is undercut from the factory, so don't let anyone BS you about the tranny needing that work performed. The problem is the shift forks have "WORN DOWN" and also worn a groove in the gear where they ride. The contact surface on the shift fork is softer than the gear surface, and they look like you have put them on a bench grinder. You need to replace your forks. Our bikes have 3 forks. At some other time you can replace your worn gears also, but just the forks will make a "Tremendous" difference". I did all the work myself, including a tranny rebuild. These worn parts makes your tranny "loose" so you don't get a good engagement. It is not possible to get a neutral in any spot other than between 1st & 2nd!!!!!! This problem is not a false neutral it is a missed shift or non engaged gear! Based on my findings, everyone no matter how you shift or what oil you use, will eventually have this problem! Metal on metal will always wearout eventually,,,,,,
The shift forks can be changed without removing the motor or splitting the cases!!!!
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
posted August 24, 2002 12:31 PM
Edited By: entropy on 24 Aug 2002 13:33
as usual, ra12r is right on the money.
I had the jumping outa 2nd syndrome, just as ra described. The "pads" on the forks were worn almost completely off. As long as the motor was in pieces, the 3 forks, the drum and 2/6 gears were replaced (and the builder said he "shimmed" something???). WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Even when brand new I don't remember my bike shifting as well as it does not, and no more popping in/out/in of 2 at the 1/4.
____________
This moderator uses moderation in moderation
posted August 24, 2002 02:23 PM
I would suggest just ordering NEW OEM shift forks. I ordered mine from ron ayers naturally and they are about $50 each give or take a little. In order to change any of the gears you have to split the cases. Rebuilding the tranny however is not for the non-mechanical........you know who you are, so know your limitations too!!! But, any transmission or local mechanic can easily do it! The tranny is built very well, but also very simple. Personally, I disassemble the entire tranny and then polished all the shifting surfaces. Can you say,,,,,"butter....no parkaaaaay!!!"
Now the shimming that Entropy's guy did, is a step above the rest in regard to having a "tight" tranny. I would have to say that mine is "like new tight", but Entropy's tight is "like Virgin tight".......
Swft,,,,,in case you want to know who the tranny guys is, i didn't ask his name and i just call him the "Tranny guy"!!!
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted August 04, 2003 11:06 AM
I had a problem with false neu when I use amsoil in the bike....changed it back out, quit having problems.....and I have never had a false neu while doing clutchless shifts????? craig..I would say on an )#, unless you have a LOT of miles on it...you could probably get rid of it by going to a different oil....just my opinion....
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted August 04, 2003 02:41 PM
Also you can get false neutrals from the stock shift lever not being lubed properly.
I always see stock bike with lots of play in the linkage. Switch the position some and shift "firmly"...not limp ankled...like NinjaFagMan..
posted August 04, 2003 02:51 PM
My '03 has never liked the 3rd to 4th, or 5th to 4th shift., ever since it was brand new. It doesn't do it alot, but when I do miss one, it's always 4th. But, it's only when I use the clutch. When doing clutch-less upshifts or downshifts, it engages 100% of the time. Go figure....???
posted August 04, 2003 06:40 PM
Mine was incomplete 2nd gear shifts......it would stay in 2nd unless i started accelerating harder and then just jump or completely pop into a false neutral out of gear and required a second try or just shift to 3rd before accelerating hard. 3rd to 4th is the longest throw in the transmission. The problem is worn shift forks. They just grind down. I don't think mileage is the factor, but I had about 14,000.
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
posted August 05, 2003 12:35 PM
I do it all the time on my dirt bikes (YZ450F). Hell, if I used the clutch all the time, my forearm would pump up like Popeye's and I'd be lucky to even last a moto!!! There's obviously a lot more stress on your arms in moto-x.
On the street, I do it every once in a while. Obviously not all the time. But I raced Daytona one year with a broken wrist and never once touched the clutch other than the start. Ran the whole 100 miler and never had a single problem the rest of season with the gearbox (Z1000). Once you "sync" the downshift, I don't see any reason it would be harder on the gearbox. We may have someone who's more of a brain surgeon than me to say otherwise, but JMO from 30 years of racing.
posted August 05, 2003 06:10 PM
This is not a "hard on the tranny" issue,,,,,, It is simply a harder metal(gears) grinding down slowly softer metal(forks)
____________
All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
posted August 06, 2003 07:25 AM
you fukers jinxed me...I hadnt had a false neu, since I quit using amsoil...until today...had the first one in a very long time...you fukrs.....lol
____________
When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted August 08, 2003 04:34 AM
K Bryant,
I tried it today (clutchless downshift), and it's a lot smoother (at low revs) than I would have thought. I've been forced to do it on ATVs and it always felt like shit.
But I still think that upshifts are smoother because you're letting off the throttle, the engine is trying to slow down, to meet the new gear speed - downshifts are the opposite, you're forcing the tranny to drive the engine to an instantly higher speed.
But you're right, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
Cheers,
SC
____________
If it ain't broke, BREAK IT.
posted August 08, 2003 09:52 AM
Cool. Been there, done that, on lot's-o-stuff. Just here to offer help, experience, or opinions, whenever someone might need or want it. But of course opinions are like arse holes, everyone has got one....
HDL - I have been totally sucked into the oil debates and haved tried everything this side of drilling it out of the ground myself! I honestly feel that the only one I felt a difference with was Golden Spectro. That's by no means an endorsement. But I do think it improves the shifting every so slightly. JMO
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted August 24, 2002 05:32 AM
Edited By: 
