capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted January 20, 2007 01:36 PM
Tool needed
Where can I find a tool to remove the valve spring keepers?
And can it be done with the head still on the bike?
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2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
  
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 20, 2007 02:13 PM
WHat Are you trying to do? To remove the Keepers you need to compress the Spring and to do that you need a tool that can fit within the Bucket Area.
I have not heard of this being done with the Head on the engine because of no one having a tool to compress the spring Head ON.
Now to answer your question, I use a Small Pencil Magnet to remove the "Keepers" once I have compressed the Spring I answered the same on the ZX12R ZOne
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aliveagain
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posted January 20, 2007 02:39 PM
You can remove them by placing a socket over the spring keeper but you won't be able to replace them that way.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 20, 2007 08:05 PM
No such tool exists for purchase. You can make one though. If you have to ask how, Don't try. Serious, not being a smartass.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted January 21, 2007 07:22 AM
I am looking to replace my valve retainers with titanium ones and would rather not pull the head.
I know that I need compressed air injected into the cylinder, this will not allow the spring to compress allowing for removal of the keeper. Already made that . I was hopeing a tool existed. Sometimes easier to buy one then to make one. Sounds like it is turning into a project thank goodness it is winter in New England. 
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 21, 2007 08:02 AM
have you bought the Ti retainers yet???
If not, I wouldn't do it; lots of folks, very knowledgeable folks, say don't bother.
I run em, but prob wouldn't do it if they didn't come with the springs
That said, wanna buy a set from me? i have a bunch as i do go thru springs 
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 21, 2007 08:31 AM
You explained the #1 thing and #2 thing I did not understand! "Valve" Retainers are really called "Keepers" Valve "SPring" Retainer Is the Round piece of metal that sits on top of the Spring and has the Valve Retainers / Keepers.
OK, Now that you are into it the took you will need No matter what is the Kawasaki Valve SPring compressor adaptor that fits the Valve Spring Compressor tool. WIth that part sitting on top of the Spring at least you can see the Possibilities of where you can either Mount a Lever to that would have several Holes to be secured by a Cam cap Bolt.
If I was going to make one I would use the SPring Adaptor with a Stepped round bar top that was rounded off so that the Flat Bar Compressing it would slide as the Angle and distance changed. I would also polish these pieces ans use Molly Grease. Then I think it would all be possible
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GUNNER
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Posts: 5778
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posted January 21, 2007 10:12 AM
Motion Pro makes a nice little tool to to set the keepers with. Looks kinda like a spring loaded center punch with a hollow center for the valve stem to go into. works great for reassemble but I'm not entirely sure about disassembly.
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jungleboy
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 21, 2007 12:23 PM
getting the keepers out isnt the prob.....with the head still on its no biggie.....but it naturally begs the question...why??
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted January 21, 2007 07:42 PM
Why do you want to replace the retainers? If you had the head off and money to use up I could see it, but it is not worth this effort. The stock retainers are plenty light for the stock redline and valve weights.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 22, 2007 05:56 AM
quote:
Why do you want to replace the retainers? If you had the head off and money to use up I could see it, but it is not worth this effort. The stock retainers are plenty light for the stock redline and valve weights.
Thanks DM "Another one of my questions!! I figured a Secret Project to Shock the World
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted January 22, 2007 06:48 AM
I have an extended rev limit
and like the thought of a lighter valve train for reliability.
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted January 22, 2007 08:27 AM
I really did not care about the weight, it was how the Ti retainers hold the shims in, they "seem" to sit in there more secure, or there is more surface area on the sidewall of the shim... just one of those little imaginary things that give me a less to worry about it... and I have spent more on less for sure...
oh and if you want to pull the head, there is a simple tool that Kawasaki offers to remove the keepers...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 22, 2007 05:01 PM
MM Tool? SImple Made or SImple to use? The "C" Clamp Affair?
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jungleboy
Novice Class
Posts: 42
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posted January 22, 2007 05:17 PM
LOL!! I have a "Doc" tool as well.....a 14mm socket......just place it over the retainer, and with a small sharp jab.......VOILA! the keepers are out..........the c-clamp thingy works (most proper method) but this way you can get a whole head done, er..........undone, in about 2 minutes.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted January 23, 2007 05:27 AM
Getting it undone is never the problem,
putting them back in is a bit more interesting.
That is what I was hopeing the tool would be for.
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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H2 to ZX12
Needs a job
two stroke power
Posts: 3674
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posted January 23, 2007 02:44 PM
 Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 23 Jan 2007 14:44
quote:
LOL!! I have a "Doc" tool as well.....a 14mm socket......just place it over the retainer, and with a small sharp jab.......VOILA! the keepers are out..........the c-clamp thingy works (most proper method) but this way you can get a whole head done, er..........undone, in about 2 minutes.
LOL that's what I was thinking, a socket and a hammer. sounds stoopid, but so does the original question
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 23, 2007 04:18 PM
I use a seriously notched deep 5/8" socket for heads on and off the engine. Not in the bike however. I make two notches at least 1/2" deep and only leave about a 1/4" of the original end on each side to contact the keeper. This gives you good access to the keepers should you need it. I always put the keepers in the retainer first, add an extension to the socket, put on one good glove for the compressing hand and mash. Once you've done it a few times, you won't have to touch the keepers. Gravity should drop them right in if they're arranged right from the start. Wussies need not try.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted January 23, 2007 05:33 PM
Edited By: capt10ed on 23 Jan 2007 17:34
LOL that's what I was thinking, a socket and a hammer. sounds stoopid, but so does the original question
H2 Getting them out is NOT the problem , though hitting a 14 socket with a hammer with the head still on the motor and the motor still IN the bike... mght be.
Getting them IN with the socket and hammer might prove to be even more difficult. 
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 23, 2007 05:37 PM
This seems like a way, (with a fabricated tool), to install stiffer springs as well (without removing the head)....?
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H2 to ZX12
Needs a job
two stroke power
Posts: 3674
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posted January 23, 2007 06:45 PM
Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 23 Jan 2007 18:52
quote:
H2 Getting them out is NOT the problem , though hitting a 14 socket with a hammer with the head still on the motor and the motor still IN the bike... mght be.
Getting them IN with the socket and hammer might prove to be even more difficult.
I was just kidding, don't mind me, I'm rarely serious. It would have been aparent if the emoticons worked /icon19.gif
btw, I have removed/replaced valve springs (broken) and retainers/split locks, on car engines with the heads on, there's no doubt you'll get it done. you'll be making a tool and worse case senario, the head will come off :-p
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 24, 2007 02:22 AM
Edited By: entropy on 24 Jan 2007 02:24
quote:
I use a seriously notched deep 5/8" socket for heads on and off the engine. Not in the bike however. I make two notches at least 1/2" deep and only leave about a 1/4" of the original end on each side to contact the keeper. This gives you good access to the keepers should you need it. I always put the keepers in the retainer first, add an extension to the socket, put on one good glove for the compressing hand and mash. Once you've done it a few times, you won't have to touch the keepers. Gravity should drop them right in if they're arranged right from the start. Wussies need not try.
Ken,
This socket worked for me. It ain't gonna win a beauty contest, but took only 5 min to make and did the job.
Why anyone would work on MC keepers/springs with the head on is kinda beyond me. 10 minutes, 10-12 bolts, and the head is on the bench, eh?
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krexken
Zone Head
Posts: 732
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posted January 24, 2007 03:01 PM
I did the double intake cam swap on a dirt car a while back and swapped the springs with the head on. No problemo using a little air to keep the valves up.
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