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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: ZX-12R Maxton results NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
shiphteey


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posted October 29, 2006 01:28 PM        
ZX-12R Maxton results

There are quite a bit more details but its late and I'm tired and wired at the same time:

Shiphteey: Saturday ... 1 run 184.xx mph trap, 183 gps. Mis-shift, steering damper on full soft accidentally with heavy crosswind = weave, bottle pressure over 1500 psi so I felt nothing on spray. Sunday got it together....psi @ 925....200.7 mph....next run 1100 psi per Vincent Hill....202.9 mph and backed it up with a 202.7 mph run. The 202 runs both had a mis-shift. DOH!! Gearing was 18/45 with the 180/55 supercorsa, both times trapping 12k. 18/44 may have done me some good this time, who knows. A 1/2 tooth would have been perfect

Warp12/Shane: Did the licensing passes, ran some high 170s and busted out a 184.xx mph for a nice finale. Needless to say his muzzy-piped B model isn't "down on power" like he suspected

DrRyanScarsella: Made things MORE confusing! Let me explain. Got the license passes, started spraying 4th-6th....remember he has the 2005 model that hasn't been derestricted yet....running the G-Unit. Based on his 185 and 186.xx mph runs @ 12k on stock gearing we're now even MORE confused .... is the restriction lifted? Time will tell but 12k rpms, 18/46 gearing, 186 mph trap....? Should be a little bit higher. There is the possibility this being his first time to Maxton that he may have mis-read the tach. Assuming 1-2 mph per 100 rpms, if he saw 12k exactly it would be about 190 give or take due to his tire. Now if he misread his tach by just a little, even 100-200 rpms, easy to do @ top end!!!! then maybe the G-unit DID work and he needed to spray earlier or longer distance to prove it. Just by virtue of pulling near 12k in 6th implies the limiter has been bypassed

V-Hill: Nitrous problems, ended up running really lean, says he hurt the motor, I'll let him explain it in his own words.

A B model 1427 cc geared 18/41 ran a 201.xx mph best. In April he out mphed me with a 203.6

MORE SHITTY DETAILS LIKE ME DUMPING MY BIKE IN DEEP WATER/MUD AND LOOKING LIKE I HAD BEEN SHIT ON....BOTH OF MY LEATHER SUITS, BOOTS, TIRE PUMP AND GAUGE WERE STOLEN SAT NIGHT OUT OF MY P/U TRUCK LATER, I'M TIRED!!! 12s were outnumbered by the busas about 2.5 to 1....(whats new )

A.

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GUNNER


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posted October 29, 2006 02:47 PM        
So Ship did the IceMan spank you with the 10R or NOT?
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GUNNER


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posted October 29, 2006 02:58 PM        Edited By: GUNNER on 29 Oct 2006 22:03
Ship did I just read at .NET that the 10R went 205 on motor only? AND 208 with a 15 shot of spray only?? Can we all say that the ZX10R is the baddest mother fucker ever to roll down the pike?? HUH! can we all agree to that.... Looks LIKE the IceMan frosted the everyone's balls this weekend
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oldkawboy


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posted October 29, 2006 11:07 PM        
Ship,
I'll read about the numbers later but am really curious about your stuff getting stolen....BASTARDS!! I hate thieves.
Was your truck at the motel or track? Did it happen at the event or at night?
Sorry to hear you're out your goods, maybe they'll die a slow, painful death. I HATE THIEVES.
Dan

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shiphteey


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posted October 29, 2006 11:28 PM        
No no the track is always cool. I got a place @ Lumberton. Basically its @ Exit 19 off of 95 (maxton exit is 14). Since I come from Northern VA and just come on down south, any place a few exits before exit 14 makes the most sense. Usually you're a bit tired and don't feel like going thru Maxton to get to Laurinburg, another 30 minutes or so of driving. It isn't exactly a "safe area"....lesson learned.

The name of the place is called Knights Inn. Been there before and they let me park my bike right in front of the hotel lobby window so they can keep an eye on it.

As an aside, I think it was the Days Inn, September 05, my buddy had his cbr 1000 on his trailer, I had my 12 on mine. We were new to the game, don't think we even had locks! Lobby called our room and said there were 2 vans around our bikes with about 10 guys total!!!!

We came out with a couple knives and a tazer, lol. They fled but slowly. After that we parked it up to the lobby window.

Live and learn. But really I am partly to blame. It is just TOO easy to steal anything out of a pickup truck bed.

A.

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Texas12R


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posted October 30, 2006 01:49 AM        
I must be deep in a dark hole!!! How does a 10r run so much harder than a 12???
I mean 208 on motor only...is it areogoddamics or what???
If its not too much trouble to explain...

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VincentHill


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posted October 30, 2006 01:59 AM        
NOT 208 on Motor! He used NOS to run the 208 but he did run 205 on Motor stock sized Pistons. They were right next to me
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GUNNER


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posted October 30, 2006 02:07 AM        
Yea 208 with only a very small 15 SHOT!!!!!!! The 10R is a rocket!!!!!!!!

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supra5677


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posted October 30, 2006 02:09 AM        
10r is in superior state of tune. Same size crank as 12r but revs 1000
rpms more. Get your 12r or modded 12r to rev to a true 12625 and
see how fast it goes..

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GUNNER


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posted October 30, 2006 02:45 AM        
Once again you can beat this to death and say do this or do that, BUT what's on the table is what's there and the 10R just whipped the 12's ASS with a 998cc bore! The 12 don't spin up that high because Kawasaki didn't design it that way. BIKE for BIKE and mod for mod the 10 JUST ripped the 12s nut sack clean off and shoved it down it's intake. I own and love both bikes but the 10 is the new king here NOW!
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DrRyanScarsella


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posted October 30, 2006 04:43 AM        
Icemans bike is nothing like a stock 10r, first of all. It is modded a lot and tuned nicely. Iceman did a awesome job on that bike. I would really like to see what he could do with a 12 if he had one. He knows his building/tuning for sure and was a very cool guy in general. He has alll sorts of electonic gadgetry and can ride the shit out of it. I doubt highly that the bikes owner could get it to run like the iceman did. I think the 10/s power to weight ratio is great, better then the twelve. I bet his 10r dynos well over 190 hp's. Shiph 12 is like mostly stock with some bolt on parts. I bet iceman could tune it and ride it 205 plus.
All trash talk aside the 10 is a great bike and the 12 is a sexy beast. Way cooler to pick up girls on the 12r.

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GUNNER


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posted October 30, 2006 05:13 AM        
Doc...........That 10R has stock pistons and that my friend is what makes the 10 fall into the stock catagory.... The head has been cleaned up ONLY and he has his own valve spring package in the motor.. The history of this bike has been discussed as it progressed over at 10R.net.. This bike didn't just fall out of the thin air.. It has a history of progression.. It makes use of every Hp that it has..


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VincentHill


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posted October 30, 2006 06:05 AM        
quote:
Doc...........That 10R has stock pistons and that my friend is what makes the 10 fall into the stock catagory.... The head has been cleaned up ONLY and he has his own valve spring package in the motor.. The history of this bike has been discussed as it progressed over at 10R.net.. This bike didn't just fall out of the thin air.. It has a history of progression.. It makes use of every Hp that it has..




STOCK "SIZED" PISTONS! NOT FACTORY STOCK Kawasaki Pistons!~

The rest I agree and they did use a very small shot of NOS I never asked how much but figured it was 30 or less

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Phantom Menace


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Posts: 169
posted October 30, 2006 06:14 AM        
quote:
Icemans bike is nothing like a stock 10r, first of all. It is modded a lot and tuned nicely. Iceman did a awesome job on that bike. I would really like to see what he could do with a 12 if he had one. He knows his building/tuning for sure and was a very cool guy in general. He has alll sorts of electonic gadgetry and can ride the shit out of it. I doubt highly that the bikes owner could get it to run like the iceman did. I think the 10/s power to weight ratio is great, better then the twelve. I bet his 10r dynos well over 190 hp's. Shiph 12 is like mostly stock with some bolt on parts. I bet iceman could tune it and ride it 205 plus.
All trash talk aside the 10 is a great bike and the 12 is a sexy beast. Way cooler to pick up girls on the 12r.



As a matter of fact, ICEMAN should be done with my fully built 1287cc ZX12R in about a month.

ACE PERFORMANCE (iceman)

Ported Head
Valve Job
ACE valve kit
3mm JE pistons
RD Tranny
Degreed cams to ACE's #'s
Short stacks
Full Catalyst Fiberglass bodywork
40 shot of Nitrous
Numberous Weight Reduction parts
Modified ECU
ACE PERF. "Super-Tune" PC3R


Hoping do see the bike run 201-203mph in the 9/10th's N/A and 210mph on the juice.


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rac4it


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Bergie
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posted October 30, 2006 06:49 AM        
Well I definitely need to get back there, my last couple runs were 202-204 all motor. I wonder what it will do now with an extra 90 horsepower!

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VincentHill


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posted October 30, 2006 07:33 AM        
quote:
Well I definitely need to get back there, my last couple runs were 202-204 all motor. I wonder what it will do now with an extra 90 horsepower!



Kick Ass and take Names!! (215 to 220)

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GUNNER


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posted October 30, 2006 08:13 AM        Edited By: GUNNER on 30 Oct 2006 17:26
quote:
quote:
Doc...........That 10R has stock pistons and that my friend is what makes the 10 fall into the stock catagory.... The head has been cleaned up ONLY and he has his own valve spring package in the motor.. The history of this bike has been discussed as it progressed over at 10R.net.. This bike didn't just fall out of the thin air.. It has a history of progression.. It makes use of every Hp that it has..




STOCK "SIZED" PISTONS! NOT FACTORY STOCK Kawasaki Pistons!~

The rest I agree and they did use a very small shot of NOS I never asked how much but figured it was 30 or less


Vince I just learned of this myself........................So Doc I stand corrected That litte fact about the pistons slipped by my watchful eye... It's still 998cc even if this is true. I'll do some asking about to see if this tell is true or made up BS to discredit this bike and builder.


Whatever ICEMAN is doing it works and he's to be commended for sure..

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supra5677


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posted October 30, 2006 08:41 AM        
Id'e have to disagree with you on the rev limit Gunner. Kawasaki didn't rev it up that high because they didn't want to, not becaus they couldn't do it safely. The zx11 with a 58mm stroke revved to 11500. The zx12r with a 55.4mm stroke revved to 11625. Shorter strokes can rev higher safely. I have already extended my rev limit by 600 already and it revves freely to 12,200 with no problem. Also keep in mind the zx12r, zx9r, and zx10r have IDENTICAL cams in terms of lift and duration. This is to take nothing away from the 10r which is pound for pound a stronger motor than the 12r..

supra

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shane661


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posted October 30, 2006 08:46 AM        
quote:
Id'e have to disagree with you on the rev limit Gunner. Kawasaki didn't rev it up that high because they didn't want to, not becaus they couldn't do it safely. The zx11 with a 58mm stroke revved to 11500. The zx12r with a 55.4mm stroke revved to 11625. Shorter strokes can rev higher safely. I have already extended my rev limit by 600 already and it revves freely to 12,200 with no problem. Also keep in mind the zx12r, zx9r, and zx10r have IDENTICAL cams in terms of lift and duration. This is to take nothing away from the 10r which is pound for pound a stronger motor than the 12r..

supra


Good point. That gives the 11 about 3.5% more piston speed than the 12.

Would it be safe to assume that the bottom end of the 12 is as stout as the 11?

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Phantom Menace


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posted October 30, 2006 09:42 AM        
The bottom end of the ZX-12R is very stout from what I've seen. I've seen stock rods and stock crank push near 300rwhp on the dyno with no problem.

If you fully balance the entire motor (pistons, rods, crank, etc), there's no reason why the ZX-12R can't take more than 12.2k rpm. Question is HOW to get the stock ECU to allow more than 12.2k rpm.

Mine's already got 600rpm over the stock 11.6k... but I wouldn't mind another 300rpm on top of that.

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Y2KZX12R


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posted October 30, 2006 10:06 AM        Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 30 Oct 2006 17:07
Well lets see... my 1375 has a maximum piston velocity of 4360 fpm @11,600 rpm, so dont worry about the tiny stroke 10r exceeding 4500 fpm.
And the maximum piston acceleration is 134,068 fps. well below 150,000 fps.

So the 10r can be reved (with ported pistons) to around 17,000 rpm before ring seal became a serious issue. With out gas assist maybe 16,000?

What makes the 10 seem like a better engine is the fact that its smaller in displacement and the cylinders are easyier to fill. Look at the 600's. They make even more hp per cc.
But look at the BSFC.

And my 3.5cc liquid cooled rc boat engine makes 1.2hp for that 3.5cc. That would be like a 410 hp 1199cc engine. But it doesnt work that way. Plus the boat burns 35% nitromethane.

But really, you cant say that the 10r engine is in "a higher state of tune" from the factory than the 12r engine if the compression and cams are similar.

Right?



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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com

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shane661


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posted October 30, 2006 10:13 AM        Edited By: shane661 on 30 Oct 2006 17:15
Ok, so clarify this for me...

Can I safely rev a stock or 1290cc 12R to 12.2k? (My understanding is that the 1290 pistons are LIGHTER than the stockers in my B model)

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Y2KZX12R


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posted October 30, 2006 10:30 AM        Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 30 Oct 2006 17:32
Yes, the bottom end will handle whatever rpm you throw at it with a stock stroke. The rods arnt going to snap off when the clock strikes 12,500 rpm. But they may distort over time with that kind of usage.
The real issue is the valvetrain. Thats where you need to focus $$$ if you want to rev the piss out of it.. Those little springs were very carefully engineered for 11,800 or so RPM max.
They might not like 12,500 rpm for too long.
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shane661


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posted October 30, 2006 10:41 AM        
quote:
quote:
Doc...........That 10R has stock pistons and that my friend is what makes the 10 fall into the stock catagory.... The head has been cleaned up ONLY and he has his own valve spring package in the motor.. The history of this bike has been discussed as it progressed over at 10R.net.. This bike didn't just fall out of the thin air.. It has a history of progression.. It makes use of every Hp that it has..




STOCK "SIZED" PISTONS! NOT FACTORY STOCK Kawasaki Pistons!~

The rest I agree and they did use a very small shot of NOS I never asked how much but figured it was 30 or less


Where has this been documented? The owner of the bike has posted that they are stock Kaw pistons...I am trying to get a pm from him verifying this...I trust these guys as being 100% straight-up and honest....

They only ran a 15 shot of nos...I was standing there and watched them install the bottle, and I asked about the amount of spray.

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GUNNER


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posted October 30, 2006 10:42 AM        
quote:
Well lets see... my 1375 has a maximum piston velocity of 4360 fpm @11,600 rpm, so dont worry about the tiny stroke 10r exceeding 4500 fpm.
And the maximum piston acceleration is 134,068 fps. well below 150,000 fps.

So the 10r can be reved (with ported pistons) to around 17,000 rpm before ring seal became a serious issue. With out gas assist maybe 16,000?

What makes the 10 seem like a better engine is the fact that its smaller in displacement and the cylinders are easyier to fill. Look at the 600's. They make even more hp per cc.
But look at the BSFC.

And my 3.5cc liquid cooled rc boat engine makes 1.2hp for that 3.5cc. That would be like a 410 hp 1199cc engine. But it doesnt work that way. Plus the boat burns 35% nitromethane.

But really, you cant say that the 10r engine is in "a higher state of tune" from the factory than the 12r engine if the compression and cams are similar.

Right?





These guys just can't handle the 10R handing them their ASS... BTW!!!!!!!!! I spoke with the man that owns the bike and he tells me the pistons ARE in fact OEM units...

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