gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 17, 2006 07:33 AM
Edited By: gebla on 17 Jul 2006 08:56
another engine failure
Bought a 2002 zx12r with 26000km about 2 months ago. After some serious fast driving last Saturday at max speed I drove home. Just before my door the engine starts making tik tik tik tik tik noises which now changed into dak dak dak dak noise.
Removed the engine and the oil pan and found some metal inside the oil pan (looks like bearing material). I guess its a conrod bearing failure. I fear that I will have to replace the crankshaft as well. Welcome to the ZX-12R fun .
Does someone knows a good address for a crankshaft in Europe?? (or engine)
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 17, 2006 09:02 AM
DId you change Oil and Filter and have the oil up to the top of the center of the Oil WIndow BEFORE Taking it out for a "Serious" ride? If "YOU" ported the the Oil oick uo doing a wheelie or stroppie, that may have done it!
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gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 17, 2006 09:35 AM
After the noise I checked the oil level and I noticed that it was a bit low. No stoppies or wheelies, only high speed driving.
I guess that the oil level caused the failure or that when the failure occurred some oil was lost. But during driving the oil light never came on.
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VincentHill
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posted July 17, 2006 12:21 PM
quote: After the noise I checked the oil level and I noticed that it was a bit low. No stoppies or wheelies, only high speed driving.
I guess that the oil level caused the failure or that when the failure occurred some oil was lost. But during driving the oil light never came on.
You did not say that after you bought the bike you changed Oil & FIlter or even check to see that it had Oil! When some people sell their bikes, they do not go to the dealer and have full service done before selling the bike so you should! Does this make sense to you??
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted July 17, 2006 04:43 PM
16K miles is nothing on these motors.
I know a guy that maintains his well and rides the shit out of it and has over 90K miles (search for "oldkneedragger").
You didn't do due diligence (as I think Vince was alluding to above).
If you are going to run the piss out of these engines you might want to change the oil and filter first when you buy it and make sure things are right down below.
zx-11's and zx-12's do NOT like to be run low on oil.
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NOX
Needs a job
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posted July 17, 2006 04:57 PM
sounds like user error...........
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gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 17, 2006 09:42 PM
Off course I checked the oil level when I bought the bike. As well I checked the full service history and the bike had all its services done. As well during driving I checked the oil level but maybe not often enough.
Maybe it is my error, I am not sure. Its a very expensive error that I will not make again.
But my question was if someone knows some addresses for crankshaft repair in Europe? Or has an engine available in Europe?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 17, 2006 09:46 PM
check in with these guys they will surely know:
http://200mph.net/
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gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 18, 2006 05:05 AM
Edited By: gebla on 18 Jul 2006 07:55
Thanks for the link. I will ask in that forum.
Does someone know the difference between European spec and American spec engines? Are they interchangeable if they are from the same year?
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted July 18, 2006 12:24 PM
I'm always confused when I see a post on "another" 12 engine failure. It makes them sound as if they're a defective lump of shit. I'll always have nothing but much praise about my 30k '00 12R, and this '02 feels just as sound. The engine from the '00 is in another 12 now, and running strong. I sure did'nt baby it, by a long shot, and the new owner ain't gonna either...
It's always a crap-shoot when buying used. You never know exactly how it was used/maintained.
jeff
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted July 18, 2006 01:03 PM
The only ones that come to mind across the pond are P3, Arrow, or maybe TTS. It might be cheaper to get a used crank and sell yours for a stroker. Hope the crank is ok though. I am an idiot, but ticking sounds like the valve train to me and then the clanking/daking sounds like the rod/bearing. Maybe oil starvation from clutch fiber material clugging oil pickup screen. Guess we will know when ya unbotton her.
Good Luck, hope there is minimal damage.
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gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 18, 2006 01:58 PM
The ticking sound I first guessed as well that it would be a valve. But the ticking sound is gone now and changed into more "serious" sound.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 18, 2006 02:13 PM
You may also want to send your crank to SOme place like Falicon we have over here in Florida. They do a Beautiful job of welding uo the crank grinding to size and then hardening. When I did the crank on a ZX11, it even used the exact same sized Bearings.
The Motors are very strong but refuse to tolorate bad Oil, Low Oil or having the Oil pick up Ported. My feeling is that you will find #3 Rod loose. Send the crank out for repair and buy a New rod (Make sure it has the same numbers marking) and new Bolts for every rod. Because they are stretch Bolts and I would not reuse them. Over here it is about $350 to $400 for the crank and for the ROd , new bearing and Bolts another $150 so figure $600 (head and base gasket about $50 to $75) or so for repairs and a lot of work!
For real, I hate that it happened to you and wish you has changed Oil and Filter before the ride. My step Son bought a car and ran it hard and lost an engine. I thought by being around me for 15 years at the time and watching me buy used cars and vans and all of the time I spent changing Oil Filters and flushing the cooling systems and brake lines. But he is now "Experienced" and does just what I was always doing!
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted July 18, 2006 03:04 PM
Also, for future reference - whenever you hear an abnormal "ticking" sound, ALWAYS stop the motor immediately.
Valve's don't suddenly go out of clearance nor do main bearings. Every main bearing I've ever seen go bad started out as a "little tick" and within a few miles turned into a knock.
And every guy told me "I knew something was wrong but I just wanted to get it home".
Thats a $1500 (or more) mistake unless you have the skills and tools to rebuild the motor yourself.
If a main is starting to go and you shut off the motor immediately you are just replacing bearings which is a hell of a lot less $$$ than have a crank welded and turned.
It's easy to tell if a main is going because it knocks much harder under load. The symptoms are unmistakeable.
Once you suspect a main bearing is going do NOT restart the engine. Pull the oil pan and the metal shavings (strong presence of brass, copper, nickel and/or aluminum that you can see) will tell you everything you didn't want to see.
And definitely sorry about your motor. Live and learn is my motto.
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gebla
Parking Attendant
Posts: 14
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posted July 19, 2006 02:21 AM
Me too, I am as well very sorry about th emotor and my st*pid misstake. But I m even more sorry for my wallet.
Now it is time for searching for parts or engines. I have to decide what to do. Replace the engine or fix the engine
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted July 19, 2006 06:30 AM
quote: You may also want to send your crank to SOme place like Falicon we have over here in Florida. They do a Beautiful job of welding uo the crank grinding to size and then hardening.
Vince, I disagree. Do NOT send your crank to Falicon!
I have had a very bad experience with them as have a few others.
Send the crank to APE or marine crankshaft if you want it done right the first time.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted July 19, 2006 11:58 AM
I'm scared of APE and I did not think Falicon cooked (Nitrided) their stuff, but
I'd have to give two thumbs up for Marine Crank on quality and price. I have
personally had three Busa cranks (2 of which were strokers, 5mm
and 8.5mm over) and one ZX12 4.6mm over, they were all beauts! stroker
12 crank was $743.94 nitrided, micropolished, balanced, and shipped with
insurance. I have seen about 8 others from marine a couple from Falicon,
and half dozen from APE.
I do have Falicon Rods though!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 19, 2006 12:04 PM
It was Harry that sent a crank to Falicon and APE! it took 2 life times for APE and the crank did not look as good as the Falicon Crank. I have personally used Falicon 2 times and never has a problem with a crank! I have also been through their Faculity and like what I saw
I do not know about Marine Crank
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted July 19, 2006 12:32 PM
I do believe Entropy runs Marine Crank stuff on his ride. I think he has used APE, and I can not remember correctly, but I think it might not have worked out to his liking.
Karl, I hope you have not been in Indonesia hanging out on the beach!
See ya at the ShootOut, heard JC might have the family in tow. I'll
have my boy with me. Ralf's got my trans so it'll be a little longer
before I'll be riding.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted July 19, 2006 12:47 PM
I have used both Falicon and Marine. Let's just say Marine will be getting ALL of my future crank business. I have a crank there right now actually.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 19, 2006 12:51 PM
quote: I do believe Entropy runs Marine Crank stuff on his ride. I think he has used APE, and I can not remember correctly, but I think it might not have worked out to his liking.
Karl, I hope you have not been in Indonesia hanging out on the beach!
See ya at the ShootOut, heard JC might have the family in tow. I'll
have my boy with me. Ralf's got my trans so it'll be a little longer
before I'll be riding.
Gary, that is Funny about the Beach Considering all of the places he goes
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted July 19, 2006 01:35 PM
Didn't want to start this but ,
Falicon tried to steal my crank.
Told me it was cracked and offered to trash it for me to save shipping.
Would not charge me for checking it.
I declined the offer and sent it to APE,
2 years and many nitrous passes later that cracked crank has not broke yet.
Good Luck ,
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 19, 2006 01:38 PM
It is always good to tell what you know! Otherwise how will we know?
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted July 19, 2006 02:53 PM
Pretty hard to hear shit with custom fitted ear plugs.
In any massed produced product there will be manufacturing defects, could be a case of bad luck.
In any event, check the site glass perfectly vertical with a ideal oil level bring the bike down to it's kick stand and add a board or something similar that you can do safely before every ride, make a note where a slightly less than vertical bike will register an ideal oil level.
Repeat as necessary.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 20, 2006 01:43 AM
quote: I do believe Entropy runs Marine Crank stuff on his ride. I think he has used APE, and I can not remember correctly, but I think it might not have worked out to his liking.
Karl, I hope you have not been in Indonesia hanging out on the beach!
See ya at the ShootOut, heard JC might have the family in tow. I'll
have my boy with me. Ralf's got my trans so it'll be a little longer
before I'll be riding.
yep, Marine is the tits, great work, great customer support!
I was supposed to be in Indonesia last week, but decided to wait till 3rd week Sept for a visit. The beeches there are fine
Gary, you lent your custom trans to Ralf... ?????
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