VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted July 01, 2006 06:10 PM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 1 Jul 2006 19:16
My ZX12R As Set for Maxton June 25, 2006
Not a good picture but the top number on the left is 300 and the peak lean spike is about 17. After tuning the peak lean was about 15 and went to 10. The non Nos Line was after these runs where I added Fuel and that is why the sprayed runs have a leaner off spray line. I need to make a few more adjustments on the lower RPM to straighten out the fuel curve and add pressure to the NOS Fuel delivery for a smaller lean spike by increasing the speed of the fuel flow!
The numbers are (From Bottom to top 276.15, 273.80, 161.38, & 266.73
The timer was set to open at 50% and then 100% after about 2.5 seconds exactly as set to make my run.
From what we saw during the spraying at Maxton, I need to reset the Nozzles in #1,2,& 3 about 1 turn deeper in the Throttle Body to a better spray pattern, Second, I need to time and test the flow amount with the lines bent as they are mounted to measure and correct the flow for each cylinder. Then make sure I have a total of more than 1.2 Pounds of delivery in 10 seconds. Once this is done, match the fuel delivery.
If I find that the small NX Nitrous Solenoid will not flow the amount I need, then I will either find the NOS Brand 250 SHot solenoid that has the Teflon coated valves or mount a second Battery to allow for the 25 amp draw of a 250 NX Brand solenoid.
Next test the Delay will be removed and just the Max Power delivered! I really believe that 276 HP would have surely taken me a "Good" amount over 200 MPH! (Not to mention what it would have done for Randall  )
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
  
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megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted July 02, 2006 10:30 AM
Great numbers, but isn't the 161.38 # low?
Good Luck!
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
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posted July 02, 2006 11:35 AM
quote:
Great numbers, but isn't the 161.38 # low?
Good Luck!
Yes & No! For a stock ZX12R, fair, for one with a lot of work Yes, but with flat topped pistons, 0.100" Base Gasket to "LOWER" the compression ratio to 10.25 to 1 and using 116 octane (Non- oxygenated) fuel and 1 degree of timing retard Off spray (6 degrees retarded with spray) not too bad!  More than most Busas to boot! To spray between a 150 and 200 shot I treated the engine like a Turbo. There are 2 choices, Stress the engine highly and make 200 HP and use a 75 to 100 Shot! or remove all of the stress out of the engine and make 160 to 165 HPand spray 150 to 200 SHot.
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted July 03, 2006 09:12 AM
Yep, 161 is outstanding for that set up.
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NOX
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PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
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posted July 04, 2006 08:36 PM
I agree...........
Let us know..............
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rac4it
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Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted July 05, 2006 10:23 AM
It's cool that you did it that way, your way, but... now you have a bike that really only makes good power when it's on the nitrous. I know you did that intentionally. Personally I'd rather have a bike that makes 200hp ALL the time and 300 sometimes, rather than a bike that makes 160hp all the time and 320 sometimes.
In other words you've built a good nitrous bike but an average streetbike.
The term reliable and nitrous do not mix well no matter how you build an engine, so you may as well build it for power. Just my opinion.
I waiting to see your dyno charts when you step up the pills! I want to see 320rwhp! That will be AWESOME!
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VincentHill
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posted July 05, 2006 12:38 PM
Bergie, the Secret is that if "YOU" had not offered me the Dyno TIme to begin with, I would be about 6 months to another Year behind where I am right now. Also, You have personally been in the pain and suffering on Both sides and for me, all I can say is "I really appreciate EVERYTHING you have done to help me". By no means have I cleared the woods to the point I cannot see them but at least I am now able to miss a few trees when they try to hit me in the head "AGAIN"!.
You are "Exactly" Correct about off Spray performance which is Exactly why I had all of the sets of OD Gears made. Having an OD 5th and 6th at the ratios I selected from testing show that we can be "Almost" 3 teeth "SHORTER" in overall gearing to pull the same Top Speed Number (Before the OD Gears)
Doing some Rough figuering, your bike will have about a 17.5% HP advantage in the 1st 3 gears with the Standard Transmissions
Going to the OD Gears this reduces the advantage to about 13% when we are OFF Spray.
In the top 3 gears (Provided I can come up with between 320 to 330 HP I am looking for), I will have about a 10% HP advantage on top end. At Maxton, there is no telling who has the advantage but in my mind I would think it would be you. On the Otherhand, If I get this all done and make a little trip to Bonneville for the BUD (or what ever), I feel that even with the same HP I would have the advantage (Another reason I went to a 5 pound bottle and may Stack another one on top of the tail section or mount 2- 2.5 bottles under the engine behing the Oil Pan in the Belly pan of the fairing! (I have been looking for a nice warm spot
Right now, my #1 problem is NOS Flow through a Solenoid. Use an NX and I have to stuff another Battery in the bike. Use a NOS Brand and I will have to watch it like a Thief on Crack!
Last, Reading is wonderful. The more you read the more you can learn. I wanted to stop Pulsing the Fuel solenoid (look at the graph! As long as the Pulsing is going on, the bike is lean. The second you stop, it heads for RIch. So my next test will include connecting both Grounds for the NOS and Fuel together. From what I read, the extra AMperage makes the Fuel work quicker and just about removes the Pulsing. So maybe I can now TIME the NOS to come in at 20% for about 1.5 second which will allow the fuel to be there 100% by the time the NOS is 100%! (At least that is what I plan to work on
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
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Posts: 3310
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posted July 05, 2006 01:36 PM
" So my next test will include connecting both Grounds for the NOS and Fuel together. From what I read, the extra AMperage makes the Fuel work quicker and just about removes the Pulsing. "
Why not eliminate the fuel pulse all together and pulse the nitrous only?
Let it run rich until the nitrous catches up if it ever does go rich, much safer than running lean until fuel catches up.
900 psi arrives before 6psi when traveling the same distance, especially if you are pulsing the 6 psi.
Don't you usually see a lean spike at the begining, from the nitrous getting there first
even without a progressive box? Pulsing low pressure fuel will always make it worst.
Maybe this is what you're saying, if so my bad.
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VincentHill
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posted July 05, 2006 02:26 PM
quote:
" So my next test will include connecting both Grounds for the NOS and Fuel together. From what I read, the extra AMperage makes the Fuel work quicker and just about removes the Pulsing. "
Why not eliminate the fuel pulse all together and pulse the nitrous only?
Let it run rich until the nitrous catches up if it ever does go rich, much safer than running lean until fuel catches up.
900 psi arrives before 6psi when traveling the same distance, especially if you are pulsing the 6 psi.
Don't you usually see a lean spike at the begining, from the nitrous getting there first
even without a progressive box? Pulsing low pressure fuel will always make it worst.
Maybe this is what you're saying, if so my bad.
BINGO We have a winner 100%!
I could not have said it better. I have done a few things to already speed up the fuel. Use a Bypass Regulator (Fuel in motion moves faster than fuel sitting still). Second used smaller fuel Jets with higher fuel pressure to "HELP". My original idea was to ground the wire and no pulsing. From what I am reading and what one trusted friend stated that doing it this way with the extra Amperage mover the fuel solenoid even faster because of more amperage plus it causes the fuel to almost not pulse or to not pulse at all!.
I plan to check is all of the different ways and what ever works best will be done. Stop reading what I write because you are starting to understand what I am saying too well and that cannot be good for Humans!
Dead head the lean spike was about 20 to 1. On Bypass is is usually between 15 to 17 with a sharp drop off. SO yes, I am trying to remove the spike or lessen it even more and Pulsing the fuel makes a bad situation a lot worse!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
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posted July 06, 2006 10:09 AM
From what I am reading and what one trusted friend stated that doing it this way with the extra Amperage mover the fuel solenoid even faster because of more amperage plus it causes the fuel to almost not pulse or to not pulse at all!.
How can anything be better or open faster than just locking it open with 12v?
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VincentHill
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posted July 06, 2006 02:22 PM
quote:
From what I am reading and what one trusted friend stated that doing it this way with the extra Amperage mover the fuel solenoid even faster because of more amperage plus it causes the fuel to almost not pulse or to not pulse at all!.
How can anything be better or open faster than just locking it open with 12v?
To me it is sort of like a person in the Electric Chair, It is not the Voltage that Kills him it is the "Amperage"!
My thinking is that what he was trying to explain is with more amperage that designed to normally handle it opens as fast as it can and because there is so much there is cannot dissipate the Electricity fast enough to operate correctly (ie close during pulsing).
Every thing opens and closes. the speed at which they operate can be different. This weekend I will have my hand on the Fuel SOlenoid and puls the system. I will then know if it is or is not pulsing and how much if any! What ever the deal, the Fuel SOlenoid will not be Pulsing when I get finished "One way or the other!" for all of the reasons you once stated!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted July 07, 2006 07:35 AM
Cool, keep us posted.
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