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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
herbg26


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Posts: 140
posted August 21, 2011 05:54 AM        
Tuusinii,

LOL....as i was emailing psychegr this morning, it dawn on me that I didn't have microsoft framwork.net installed. Once I installed 3.0...everything was "cool in the game" So I figured it out, but thanks for replying.

Now it is time to blow an engine up...LOL

Herb
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herbg26


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Posts: 140
posted August 25, 2011 12:03 AM        
ok guys I have a couple more questions:

When I'm erasing the ecu: I get the following:

Erasing Maps!
Erasing Flash EEPROM Module
110
Data Not Erased At 65536 !
220
220
!!! Margin Flag Set !!!
!!! Erase Complete !!!
330
!!! Margin Flag Set !!!
!!! Erase Complete !!!
440
!!! Margin Flag Set !!!
!!! Erase Complete !!!
Maps Erased!
ECU Ready!

Is this what, suppose to show up?


I also noticed that in the ignition map
That the first gear(1234) map is gone....it just shows the individual maps for the coils..
Did the definitions change? or is there something else going on.


Thanks

Herb
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RidgeRacer


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posted August 25, 2011 12:35 AM        
On the A models there are only 4 ignition maps and the bike is restricted in all gears.

In the B models they pulled the ignition restrictions from 2nd - 6th and put it them in a first gear only map.
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herbg26


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posted August 25, 2011 01:27 AM        
Thanks....ridgeracer
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tuusinii


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posted August 25, 2011 03:22 AM        
And yes that is the same I get when erasing maps. Every time I'm put an a new map I also read it back from the ECU and compare to the one I wrote there. Just to make sure that the flashing really succeed. Never have had any errors.
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tuusinii


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posted August 25, 2011 03:27 AM        
And by the way I have modified the definitions so that the Fuel and Ignition maps show volts instead of % or pressure. I can e-mail them if You want. Makes tuning and datalogging much easier...
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herbg26


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posted August 25, 2011 08:46 AM        Edited By: herbg26 on 25 Aug 2011 22:47
Thanks for the replies.....tuusinii I sent you a pm with my email address

Herb
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teamtaz


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posted August 06, 2012 12:55 AM        
zx12 ecu

hi,can you still remove some of the unwanted sensors from a 2003 b1 ecu,speed sensor,gear postion switch and any other sensor not really needed,cheers kev

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tuusinii


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posted August 13, 2012 09:07 PM        
That is possible but I don't think that anybody has done it. As our ECU is allready old and not much interest in it I think that You have a lot of work to do if You wan't those options. But there are instructions how to get the code out but off course it takes a lot of time to reverse engineer. Ridge used many many days doing that...
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tuusinii


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posted August 13, 2012 09:15 PM        
And now that this post is back up front I remembered to ask RR question if he is still reading this? Now I've got my ECU pretty close regarding fuel and ignition and the bike is much better in every way (less fuel consumption, less vibration, better throttle response,...) but there is still one area that bothers even more now that the other problems have beem removed. And that is the fuel cut off when letting of the throttle and getting back on gas. Did You ever got figuring that from the code with ZX12 ECU? Because when that would be solved the ZX12 would be truly awesome.
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tuusinii


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posted September 02, 2012 05:13 PM        
Noticed when looking the ECUhacking active board that RidgeRacer had in sometime updated the definition files for ZX12 (mainly changing the map names to what he later used). I updated the definition file to work with psychegr:s BDM-programmer. If You want it send me an e-mail and I can sent it back to You.
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Vmaxxx


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posted January 24, 2013 09:08 PM        Edited By: Vmaxxx on 25 Jan 2013 12:26
I have become the proud owner of a 2002 ZX-12R and looking for a way to remove the 187mph limit. I live in The Netherlands, close to Germany, where lots of miles of Autobahn still have no speed limit. But also being Dutch, I do not want to spend lots of $$$ on some French electronic boxes and just put them in, not exactly knowing what they do.
I have been reading this thread with great interest last night, also because I am working (on and more off) on a 1300cc MegaSquirt Yamaha Vmax (1991 model). I understand that for the B1 model the speed governor is in fact a rev-limiter that has the gear position switch and crankshaft sensor as input. Normal rev-limit is around 11,600 and in 6th it is around 10,800.
I do not want to modify the ECU (yet), because I would need a $199 BDM unit and I was thinking more like a $10 solution. I also can't find the BDM_ECU_Programmer software from psychegr anymore on RapidShare.

Since I know my way around with Atmel AVR processors I came up with 3 alternatives that I would like you to comment on and indicate which you think would be best:
1) connect the 6th gear indicator wire to the 5th gear wire, so when 6th gear in engaged the ECU thinks it is still in 5th. The ECU will also use 5th gear mappings, but i understood that there are no (significant) differences in 5th and 6th gear mappings
2) build a box that simulates a crankshaft sensor signal and is hooked up to the crankshaft sensor and the 6th gear indicator. When 6th gear is engaged, it will send a copy of the crankshaft signal , but over 10,500rpm it will keep sending the 10,500rmp signal
3) build the same box as above, but but re-distribute the crankshaft signal over the available spectrum. For example copy the signal up to 6,500rmp and then start forwarding a (lineair) lowered rmp signal so the ECU is fed a 10,500rpm signal when the engine is running 11,600rpm (or 12,000 or 12,500)
4) a better solution

The 3rd solution can also be used to raise the rev limit in the other 5 gears by lowering the revs send to the ECU.

What would be the top speed of an unrestricted stock 2002 ZX-12R? Could it ever over-rev in 6th (and blowing the engine with solution 2)?



See http://www.pkpakhuis.nl/uploads/MagicBox.jpg for a high-res version

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RidgeRacer


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posted January 25, 2013 01:58 AM        Edited By: RidgeRacer on 25 Jan 2013 17:01
The crank sensor is actually a crank position sensor whose main function is to synchronize the injectors and coils to the piston positions. Providing engine rotational speed is a secondary function. You don't want to mess with the crankshaft signal.

What you want is something that is known as a Bonneville Box. It sends a substitute signal to the speed sensor input of the ECU and can be built very cheaply. I posted the details on a site called I-Hacked.com but apparently they have gone under.

here is an archive of an old post I did on it. ZX-12 De restriction




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tuusinii


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posted January 25, 2013 03:57 AM        
Yes do what RR if You just want remove top speed limit. However I would strongly suggest to go with the ECU programming as I have found that the factory maps are quite far from ideal. Also then removing top speed limit is just a click away. I've made quite good map for '00 model with standard pipe. It get rid of all the buzzing at highway speed and also cut my fuel consumption by 15-20% on higway. Plus now it always gives more fuel when You add throttle and is much more smoother. Next summer I start building map for full Akra I bought last summer. If Your familiar with electronics as it seems I greatly suggest to go for it - it really makes this bike awesome!
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tuusinii


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posted January 25, 2013 04:02 AM        
Ridgeracer: do You have any info on the question I asked about the fuel cut off when letting of throttle?
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Vmaxxx


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posted January 25, 2013 05:57 AM        Edited By: Vmaxxx on 25 Jan 2013 22:01
Thank you guys for the replies. I will bin the piece of paper with the doodles on it.

I found that article RR mentions on the Internet Wayback Machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20120312153319/http://www.i-hacked.com/content/view/178/45/

At first glance I thought it only was applicable to the A2 model and skipped it, because I have a (European) B1 model. But looking at the wiring diagram I do find the wires mentioned in the article. I will read it again and try to understand what it says.

About remapping the ECU: I will try to gather all the necessary software, but I have a lot of other unfinished projects at hand. Maybe next winter I will have a go at it.

Thank a lot and keep up the good work. I love threads like this!


-edit-

The only thing that worries me is this:

I think I hit pay dirt Limiter wise.

I approached it from a different angle. Basically I looked for the effect then the cause. I found that the ignition subroutines that set up the next coil event test a bunch of 'flags' first and abort if any of the flags are true. (a flag is a single bit of memory that represents an on/off, true/false, yes/no etc condition)

Some of the flags are set by out of bounds sensor failures like a bad Throttle Position Sensor. One is set by the Vehicle Down Sensor. And two are set by exactly what the car guys at Enginuity.org told me to look for; Pairs of Hysteresis map data.

There are two values, a high and a low. Above the high the flag is set. Between the high and low there is no change; if its set it stays set, if its clear it stays clear. If it is below the low value the flag is cleared. These values are compared to a different crank speed value than the one used for the maps which is why I didn't find this earlier.

By my calculations the one flag is set in excess of 11,485 RPM

The other flag is set in excess of 10,818 RPM, but that test is only run if some other conditions apply that I haven't traced out yet but has something to do with gear setting. Some of you may recognize that number. I do from my days designing a speed derestricter. Its the engine rpm with stock tires and gearing when the bike is in 6th gear and going 187 mph

I was a little concerned when my calculations on the first number came out to 11,485 and not 11,600 but finding that second number made me feel more confident. Also while 11,485 only works out to 199.459 on my top speed spreadsheet it is 1 kmH over the Project 320 goal.

BTW at first glance just shutting down the coils might seem like it would make for harsh limiter for rpm or top speed but these values are being tested at a fraction of one revolution. It may only not fire once every 4, 5, or 6th cylinder. It only needs to not fire enough to slow the crank revolutions down from 191.40 rotations per second to 191.27 rotations per second to start firing again and it can detect that amount of speed change in less than 90 degrees of rotation.

The above, so far, only applies to the B1/B2. I haven't had a chance to look for similar values in the A1, A2 yet.


It looks like my B1 reacts directly to the rpm. The remaining question is what the 'some other conditions' are. Are they the 6th gear switch signal? Some speed threshold? Both?

Why is the speed signal fed back to the ECU via the Yellow wire?

What about rerouting the 6th gear switch signal to the 5th (or 4th or other) gear input, thus using that gear's mapping, but letting the ECU never see the 6th gear switch signal?

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2000redrocket


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posted January 25, 2013 08:41 AM        
tuusinii
the injectors do go dead for a time when letting off the throttle. some put the rpm signel on a data logger and found the rpm trace went to zero when off the gas.
i used the rpm wire and then went to the cam position sensor for rpm signel on a data logger so i never seen it but others mentioned that injectors cut out for a while

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RidgeRacer


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posted January 25, 2013 10:21 AM        Edited By: RidgeRacer on 26 Jan 2013 01:22
quote:
...

It looks like my B1 reacts directly to the rpm. The remaining question is what the 'some other conditions' are. Are they the 6th gear switch signal? Some speed threshold? Both?



The comments you quoted were made in the very early days. We have a much better understanding now. The only gear test related to rev limits is to see if the gear is valid

0.85V < gear voltage < 4.85V

quote:
Why is the speed signal fed back to the ECU via the Yellow wire?


The speed signal is generated by the speed sensor on the transmission. The signal splits into two wires one that goes to the speedo in the instrument cluster. The other goes to the ECU where is used to limit the speed of the bike.

If you try to defeat the speed limiter by simply cutting the speed wire to the ECU it will cause a fault the restricts the bike even worse than the speed limiter does.

The way around the speed limit is to feed it a dummy signal so the ECU thinks the speed sensor is connected. As long as this signal never exceeds 300kmh the speed limit is defeated.

The de-restricter I devised feeds the tach signal into the speed input of the ECU. The transistor is required because the tach signal is 12V and the speedo signal is 5V.

quote:
What about rerouting the 6th gear switch signal to the 5th (or 4th or other) gear input, thus using that gear's mapping, but letting the ECU never see the 6th gear switch signal?


While the Suzuki Busa and GSXRs use a 6th gear only rev limit as their speed limiter the ZX-12 does not. As explained above is use the speed sensor.

Actually the late model ZX-12s with the 32bit ecu use both a speed sensor limit and 6th gear limit so they are harder to defeat.

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RidgeRacer


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posted January 25, 2013 10:28 AM        
quote:
Ridgeracer: do You have any info on the question I asked about the fuel cut off when letting of throttle?


I've found a trailing throttle fuel cut in the ZX-10 and ZX-14 so I wouldn't be surprised to find the 12 had one as well.

I have never looked for that function in the 12 software. What you need to look for is where the TPS delta is calculated and then used. Usually it is related to that.
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Vmaxxx


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posted January 25, 2013 03:54 PM        
quote:
quote:
...

It looks like my B1 reacts directly to the rpm. The remaining question is what the 'some other conditions' are. Are they the 6th gear switch signal? Some speed threshold? Both?



The comments you quoted were made in the very early days. We have a much better understanding now. The only gear test related to rev limits is to see if the gear is valid

0.85V < gear voltage < 4.85V

quote:
Why is the speed signal fed back to the ECU via the Yellow wire?


The speed signal is generated by the speed sensor on the transmission. The signal splits into two wires one that goes to the speedo in the instrument cluster. The other goes to the ECU where is used to limit the speed of the bike.

If you try to defeat the speed limiter by simply cutting the speed wire to the ECU it will cause a fault the restricts the bike even worse than the speed limiter does.

The way around the speed limit is to feed it a dummy signal so the ECU thinks the speed sensor is connected. As long as this signal never exceeds 300kmh the speed limit is defeated.

The de-restricter I devised feeds the tach signal into the speed input of the ECU. The transistor is required because the tach signal is 12V and the speedo signal is 5V.

quote:
What about rerouting the 6th gear switch signal to the 5th (or 4th or other) gear input, thus using that gear's mapping, but letting the ECU never see the 6th gear switch signal?


While the Suzuki Busa and GSXRs use a 6th gear only rev limit as their speed limiter the ZX-12 does not. As explained above is use the speed sensor.

Actually the late model ZX-12s with the 32bit ecu use both a speed sensor limit and 6th gear limit so they are harder to defeat.



RR, thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I will build myself a custom speedo healer and install a custom speedo faceplate.

I am really trying to talk myself out of modding the ECU. I promised my wife I would not modify this bike to much (like I did with my Vmax), but I think she means mechanically .

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tuusinii


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posted January 25, 2013 06:14 PM        
RR: thanks for the tip. But as I don't have the program to interpret the firmware code to assembly on ZX12 ECU, do You think that the cut off is done via one of the unidentified maps that use throttle delta or is it just made in the fw? Trying trough the unidentified maps would be quite easy but looking trough the fw not. Any ideas?
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RidgeRacer


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posted January 25, 2013 09:05 PM        
The examples I saw were not maps but a rpm and -TPS delta value below which fuel was cut until the delta went positive again. Of course these were Kawasakis with 32 bit Mitsubishi ECUs. Doesn't really say one way or another what is going on in the 16bit Denso used by the zx-12
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2000redrocket


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posted January 27, 2013 05:29 AM        
hook a datalogger up to a injector for rpms and have a look. seems from others they cut out.
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tuusinii


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posted January 27, 2013 06:05 AM        Edited By: tuusinii on 27 Jan 2013 21:13
Yes I know they cut, but I would like them not to cut. Last Year I found that we have the programming tool also at work and I think that it also included the program to interprit the code so maybe I'll look it trough when I find time. Now after dialing the the fuelling the bike is so much better it was but that fuel cut off gives bad on/off I don't like and want to get rid of it. But we'll see...
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tuusinii


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posted January 27, 2013 06:06 AM        Edited By: tuusinii on 27 Jan 2013 21:09
Double post...
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