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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 19, 2010 07:58 PM        
Haven't done much to the project - been really busy with work ;(. Only made my base map with 12000 RPM limit. Still need to fit the WBO2 plug to start logging. But have couple questions that have come to my mind.

To redrocket:
How big differences You make to the two different fuel maps to make a noticeable AFR change? What I mean is if I'm say .5 on the lean side how much I change the map in? It probably differs but just to be on the ballpark when I actually start modifing the maps. And also after comparing the A-model and B-model maps - specially the ignition maps - it looks like A-model has some of the ignition advance built in all the gears that B-model has in it's 1st only map. Has somebody removed some of the timing in the A-model map in the region (around 3-4000rpm, small openings) and noticed some power gains? And it still bothers me that they have used the most advance in that particular part of the range. Why not retard if You wan't less power?

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RidgeRacer


Pro
Posts: 1309
posted September 19, 2010 10:46 PM        
quote:
...
How big differences You make to the two different fuel maps to make a noticeable AFR change? What I mean is if I'm say .5 on the lean side how much I change the map in? It probably differs but just to be on the ballpark when I actually start modifing the maps.


"Theoretically" if 3927 units of fuel give you an AFR of 11.5 then at that moment you were flowing 11.5 times as much oxygen (air) or 3927 x 11.5 or 45160 units of air.

Now if you want a fuel air ratio of 12.5 with the same air mass then 45160 / 12.5 = 3612 units of fuel. Another way to express it is

New Fuel value = Old Fuel x Measured AFR / Desired AFR

3612 = 3927 x ( 11.5 / 12.5) = 3927 x 0.92

Now RomRaider has a MUL button that multiplies map value(s) by some number. If you click on the 3927 map cell, place 0.92 in the blank box next to SET button and then click MUL it should change the map cell to 3612.

So to review

Divide Measured AFR by Desired AFR (11.5/12.5) = 0.92

Select fuel map cell

Enter calculated value (0.92) into RomRaider SET box

Click MUL

Now one thing to remember is in the real world the Alpha-n fuel values are a base value a starting point. That value is corrected for altitude, air temp, etc. So while the map may say 3927 at 10k WOT your measured AFR may actually be the result of say 4045 coming out the injector.

The above method should get you in the ball park however.


quote:
And also after comparing the A-model and B-model maps - specially the ignition maps - it looks like A-model has some of the ignition advance built in all the gears that B-model has in it's 1st only map. Has somebody removed some of the timing in the A-model map in the region (around 3-4000rpm, small openings) and noticed some power gains? And it still bothers me that they have used the most advance in that particular part of the range. Why not retard if You wan't less power?


Killing power by retard would dump unburned fuel into the pipe. To much advance will more completely burn the fuel but not make as much power. Check out the trailing throttle section of this Suzuki map


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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 20, 2010 02:07 AM        
Yea - why I never thought of that tpe of calculating the afr. And about the advance - that was the only thing I also ca e up: they advanced it for emissions and to soften up the the throttle response and brobably mostly for emissions.
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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 20, 2010 02:45 AM        
And thinking more about the ZX:s timing - when I look the ignition map the most advance in between 4000-5000RPM with throttle opening 2,3 to 18%. And that is just the same RPM range that the ZX is known to vibrate. I'll probably try to retard the timing a little bit back and look how it affects the vibarations - hopefully it removes them. By thinking that If You "overadvance" it will make the engine vibrate some because the fuel will start to burn before TDC. Maybe this will allow finally to get rid of that annoying buzz.

And by the way that Suzuki ignition map looks really weird! ZX at least got a decent map!

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RidgeRacer


Pro
Posts: 1309
posted September 20, 2010 05:41 AM        
quote:
...And by the way that Suzuki ignition map looks really weird! ZX at least got a decent map!


Well if your at 2% throttle at 10k rpm your obviously not trying to make power. Could be some kind of compression breaking deal or anti-backfire, EPA kind of thing. All the Suzukis have it.
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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 20, 2010 06:21 AM        
Hello everybody!

With my first post here I'd like to congratulate RR, Psyche, Tuusini and all other contributors to this project! Seriously impressive!

I'm helping my brother fit a ZX12 engine (UK bike with 1065 ECU) in a single-seat track racer so I have just attempted the slotting procedure on the ECU. I ran into what seems to be a problem so I'd like to ask for assistance - if this is not the appropriate thread please inform me and I'll start a new one.

I have assembled a parallel port programmer according to Psyche's schematics.
I have copied the BDM software to a laptop (failed to run on mine, but ran on a borrowed machine).
I have slotted the ECU and soldered wires to the pads. I glued the wires to the housing as a strain releif. Unfortunately pad 7 (freeze) seems to have delaminated somewhat from the board so I am not 100% sure of continuity. Aside from chopping the case further and exposing the other side of the board I cannot know but I'd like to know if I can check other things first.
I have tried connecting from the software but it was not successful.

Then I started wondering whether I had done some stupid mistake, I pulled out my multimeter and started probing.

5V rail seems ok on the adapter board.
There seems to be some form of activity on all lines when probing while clicking the connect button. It's momentary activity and I get nothing but a flicker on the meter. Short of getting a storage oscilloscope (and that's not something I can borrow) I can get no info on what's going on.

Unfortunately the fuel system is disconnected, so I can't even check whether I killed the ECU (I hope not!)

Do any of you guys have any idea what I can check? Guidelines? Pointers?

I'm an electrical engineer so don't be afraid of talking technical.

Thanks,
N

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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted September 20, 2010 06:33 AM        
when i adjust fuel on my A1 in the density map if i am close i only go 3 tops most of the times 5 goes over or under but i found that the less vacume which is you pulling more throttle needs more numbers as compaired to driving steady at say 70mph on the flat pulling some decent vacume numbers.
the A-N i sofar only ritchened up the 2500 to 3300 area around 1/8 tps to 1/2 tps or so and the last two wide open colums.the wide open colums are a 5 number change to start with. (more air needs a bigger number to change it)
this is what i found anyway for me.
the numbers are different for the B1 and up. it seems like some are almost as high as they can go.(255 i think)
did you guys fine the trim map that forces a change using tps and rpm?
the last time around i made my bike lean to the point of 13.8 on top end so i can use my dobeck to trim fuel and not keep flashing the ecu. (it only adds fuel that is why i leaned it out so i am always adding fuel. now more or less fuel is a screwdriver tweek away)

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 22, 2010 02:25 PM        
adr100:

So the problem is that the BDM-programmer dosen't say connected? If I understand right You didn't fit a connector to the ECU but just soldered wires to the pads? Are You sure that You have the right connections? Check with multimeter the +5V and GND that they are on the sides and from there You can count the pads. You have +12V power to the ECU on the right pins? One thing that comes to mind is that some of the pads were trough hole with wires leaving both sides so maybe You have a broken wire if the pad isn't connected. And if it is the freeze line that dosen't get connection It will certainly connect. Also one thing came to mind that psychegr sent me an registry edit that stops windows polling paraller port to check if there is printer connected. psyche can probably give You the link to the file. By the way did You check that Your bios setting for paraller port is Normal/SPP? And are You using XP? You need also latest .net on Your computer.

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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 23, 2010 04:36 AM        
As far as I know the connections are right - I will recheck everything in the weekend since I'm away from home on weekdays.

Regarding supply voltage everything should be fine - I had the ECU on what's left of the bike (my brother bought a crashed one) and taking supply from the loom. The ECU should be functional, we started the engine a few weeks back. I know I can't program in this way, but once I get a connection I'll worry about supplying the regulated 12 for programming.

+5V on the programming port is ok, I checked the supply on the 74HCxxx chips and they have just under 5V.

I didn't notice any delamination other than pad 7, but I'll confirm that on Saturday.

What I'm curious to know is the values the data pins should be holding when there is no communication. I can't recall which pin, but one of them was showing approx 4V with the multimeter rather than the expected approx 5V or approx 0V.

From what you mention I'm suspecting something from the laptop/software side - polling (even though polling at several hertz or over sounds silly to me) could definitely create an average that's not at supply/ground. Other than that there could be conflicting output states on the same line by either side (laptop trying to pull low, ECU trying to pull high, whoever sources or sinks harders wins).

I'd appreciate if someone could inform me about the details of this registry edit. In the meantime I'll check how the port is set up in the bios and I'll download the latest .net framework. Just for the record, yes the latop is running XP.

Regards,
N

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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 23, 2010 04:42 AM        
PS:
When trying to connect there is a flicker on BOTH DSI and DSO. Correct me if I'm wrong but this means that the ECU is trying to say something back to the laptop through the DSO line - otherwise only DSI should flicker?

N

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 23, 2010 04:44 AM        
IM me Youer email and I can send the registry edit. About that delamination - if You open the other end of the ECU You can probably solder it back together. I don't remember how the diffefent lines are but I can check it. But without oscilloscope it's pretty hard to know what is happening...
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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 23, 2010 04:52 AM        
Yes, I agree that without a good scope debugging is difficult. I have access to an analogue scope that's far older than me and definitely useless for one-shot things such as this... unless I can click "connect" really really fast!

Thanks for the help.
N

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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 27, 2010 04:28 AM        
A small update....

The not-connecting problem was my fault - I missed grounding conductor 11 of the parallel port cable. I did that and managed to connect and download the map. Also had to correct the port settings in BIOS, thanks for tha tip Tuusini!

Ciao
N

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 28, 2010 03:33 AM        
Good to hear that You got it working. Happy tuning and please post information about the project.
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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 28, 2010 08:04 PM        
Seems I spoke too soon! Ha ha haha ha! *desperate laughter*

When I went to open the .bin file I downloaded I found it to be a whole bunch of 0s. I'll see if I can get an oscilloscope in the weekend and try to see what else is wrong... probably some other dumb oversight of mine....
Ciao,
N

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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted September 30, 2010 09:12 PM        
Had the day off so I spent some time troubleshooting, here's what I found.

Plugging a scope into the DSI and DSO lines confirms that data is passing in both directions There is some ringing at the edges of the waveform but nothing serious.

What seems strange is that there must be some form of a pullup on the DSI line inside the ECU - the waveform on the PC side is 0-5V transitions while the waveform on the ECU side is 2.5-5V transitions. Whether the voltage levels are acceptable or not I do not know, but since it's throwing data back the ECU must be hearing something.

I confirmed I had the parallel port set to bidirectional on the PC side, and I tried two different laptops, but with both I got a file full of zeros.

Tuusini, do you mind sending the registry edit so that I can try to eliminate that? If you didn't get last time's PM I can send it again. I am suspecting that the trouble in from the PC side, but I'm confused as to where and how?

Ciao,
N

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted September 30, 2010 11:37 PM        
I'm out of town on holiday. I'll send it to You on sunday when I'll get to home. Did You had that schematic that has all the unused pins connected to GND?

Toni

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herbg26


Expert Class
Posts: 140
posted October 03, 2010 03:18 AM        Edited By: herbg26 on 3 Oct 2010 18:19
Okay guys......I'm going to try reflashing my ecu (2000 ZX12), but I have a few questions

1.) I can still just keep the ecu connected to the bike, and turn the ignition on for reflashing correct? Or do I have to reflash off the bike using external power source?

2) I purchased the BdM parallel connector off of ebay ,that reference in earlier post. Tuusinii was that the same connector you used. The reason I'm asking, want to know if the adapter pin-out is the same as the one referenced at-http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460&p=3&topicID=14007090. If not, no big deal I just hope the adapter come with the Pin-out diagram.

3)When soldering the connector to the board, is it pretty simple...I ordered the same connector referenced in http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460&p=3&topicID=14007090.

Other than that I can figure the rest of the stuff out. I'm excited about tuning thru the ecu instead of the my PCIII and ignition module combo.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Herb
____________
Kawasaki lover

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted October 03, 2010 03:56 AM        
1. No, You need to supply regulated +12V (means +12V +-5%) to the programming pin that is not normally connected. But You can keep it at the bike if You connect wires so that You can give power to that pin...

2. There should be pinout with the connector so best bet is to follow it...

3. On note when soldering. I used dremel to take some material of the connector so it fits easier to the ECU as it is hard to get all of the solder off from the holes. With the first ECU I almost fucked the board using too much force.

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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted October 03, 2010 04:37 AM        
i used a air gun on my air hose to blow the melted solder out of the holes.
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herbg26


Expert Class
Posts: 140
posted October 03, 2010 06:45 AM        
cool....thanks for the replies.....will be looking for source of power now

Thanks for the tip with the solder


Herb
____________
Kawasaki lover

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adr1000


Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
posted October 09, 2010 05:42 AM        Edited By: adr1000 on 9 Oct 2010 20:43
With some help from tuusinii I have finally managed to read the ECU.
My problem was that I build the interface cable incorrectly.

I compared the maps from the ECU to those posted online by RR and found some differences at the following addresses. I'm not sure why my data isn't the same but I'm going to work on it to find out. In the meantime I'd appreciate suggestions about this if anyone has any idea. I'll also try writing to the ECU sometime soon hopefully.

0x4036-0x4039
0x4044-0x4047
0x7830-0x7837
0x7C01
0x7C03
0x7EFD-0x7EFF
0x7F18
0x7F3A-0x7F3C
0x7FE8-0x7FED
0x7FFE-0x7FFF

Cheers!
N

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted May 21, 2011 06:25 PM        
Is it summer Yet?

But seriously haven't ridden my ZX12 yet. Been busy running in my father ZZR1400... Now got over to change oils, coolant and brake hoses on my bike. At the same time also added electric outlet for the LM-2 and wired an extra connector to TPS, manifold pressure sensor and to injector for RPM:s. So I can connect and disconnect the LM-2 when needed. Will make couple pictures in near future. But anyway next I'm ready to start logging the F/A ratio and I'll update how it seems...

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1016
posted May 22, 2011 03:49 AM        
Made a first little test but there seems to be something wrong with the RPM signal. I allready changed the signal to CAM sensor but to nothing changed. The RPM signal seems quite OK on idle but when I rev it up first it shows only half of the RPM or 0 RPM. How have people wired the RPM signal to make it work?
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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted May 22, 2011 10:57 AM        
on my wego3 i used the tach drive from the ecu and then swiched to the cam sensor.
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