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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1015
posted July 05, 2010 06:52 PM        
quote:
Send the beer to me and i will see what i can do!!! I am also waiting for news from a Hayabusa beta tester! It is time to give those 16bit ECUs more attention than before.!!!!!


Hello!

Did the Hayabusa guy had any problems like we did - getting the files out? Just curious.

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1015
posted July 12, 2010 03:55 AM        
quote:
And here is the definition file for all the ZX12 ECUs including the 21175-1087EU model.
I havent confirmed it yet but it seems to be the same as the 1089 US.

http://rapidshare.com/files/396825853/zx12_def_for_BDM_Programmer.rar


Doing some research for tuneing (ordered Innovate LM-2 today ) found that there were couple of errors in the definition file. At least on 1065 and 1087 ECU:s. In both the Volumetric Efficiensy for Cylinder 1 Map B to Volumetric Efficiensy for Cylinder 3 Map B were offset (0x34E ->0x134E). In 1065 ECU also Volumetric Efficiensy for Cylinder 4 Map B was offset by the same amount.

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psychegr


Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
posted July 12, 2010 04:21 AM        
I had no knews from the Busa guy. The problem seemed to be the interface and not the code as the code is the same as the ZX12. If you have updated the definition file please send me the updated version.

Cheers

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1015
posted July 12, 2010 04:29 AM        
Sent...
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psychegr


Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
posted July 12, 2010 04:40 AM        
Thanks Toni!!!
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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted July 12, 2010 10:27 AM        
so guys, if say tshults said i want to do this with out using me as a fall back, what would he need to do and or get? making it clear what one needs to aquire hardware wise and software wise. when the ones messing around with power commanders realise what a compramize using the power commander to mask problems with the density map and the A-N (full load map) the people that can do adjusting them selves will benifit greatly.
(i wish i could spell)

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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted July 13, 2010 01:50 AM        
what would be needed is all mentioned couple responses ago:

psychegr BDM-programmer for uploading and downloading the map file (You don't need Firmware code for remap). Then use Romraider and the above definition file to do the changes. You also need the BDM-adapter that there is a schematic couple pages back or You can buy one from ebay (allthough there seems to be some differences between different adapters but I have the one that I bought from ebay and the one I built according the schematic and they both work for me). Yoy also need a computer with Paraller port that supports normal mode or one-directional. Shoul work also wit SPP-mode. There may be some issues with differentt computers as my other computer works and the other does not...

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2000redrocket


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Posts: 1659
posted July 13, 2010 06:16 AM        
thanks it is all now in one post except for the down load links.
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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted July 13, 2010 02:22 PM        
I'll ad the links when I'm next time on my computer. Now I'm on handdy so copy paste is a little complicated...
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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted July 13, 2010 03:59 PM        Edited By: tuusinii on 14 Jul 2010 07:18
Here are the links:

psychegr:s BDM-programmer:
http://rapidshare.com/files/396461575/BDM_ECU_Programmer.rar

psychegr:s modifier definition file for BDM-programmer:
http://rapidshare.com/files/396825853/zx12_def_for_BDM_Programmer.rar
(Haven't checked if psychegr allready changed the file after couple of typo mentioned earlier...)

Romraider software:
http://www.romraider.com/RomRaider/Download

BDM-interface:
Search Ebay for #150461514325 (in US there are also European supliers for us over here look for bdm nokia or bdm saab.
There is also a schema of the interface on net but could find the one psyche sent me so don't list it here.

Link to a .rar program:
http://www.7-zip.org/
Pinout comes with the adapter and the pinout for the ECU can be found here:
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460&p=3&topicID=14007090
But check the pinout at the adapter!

Also check all the information on that activeboard forum...
And remember to do this at Your own risk and "Off road use only..."

Toni

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Rockhead2


Parking Attendant
Stevie's DADDY
Posts: 28
posted August 14, 2010 02:47 PM        
Will this work on the 04/05 model with the 32 bit ECU ? I know it's probably addressed in this huge pile of reading somewhere ... Anyone know so I can possibly save having to read all this...
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2000redrocket


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Posts: 1659
posted August 14, 2010 08:31 PM        
no it will not work on the 04 /05. i think he has that in the works though.
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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted August 16, 2010 03:00 PM        
Couple of new question to those that have used ECU programming or RR how has gone trough the code. I purchased Innovate LM2 and I'm in a process of installing it in near future. Been studying the different maps and the one I'm not sure what it does is the target AFR map. What is it used for? What is the formula ECU uses to calculate the duty cycle? RedRocket: have You altered just TPS and IAP map or have You altered other maps too?
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2000redrocket


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Posts: 1659
posted August 16, 2010 06:49 PM        
the only stuff i alter is the density map and the A-N map.
the density map is the one with rpm vs manfold vacume. that is the driving around map.
the a-n map is the tps vs rpm. you tweek that for acceleration issues.

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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted August 16, 2010 06:57 PM        
That is what I've also understanded but what is the Target AFR map used for?
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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted August 16, 2010 07:03 PM        
Redrocket:

Also have You looked how close the AFR is in different gears? What I mean is that if I set it to say 13.1 on 3rd gear at 4000RPM at 100% throttle how close it is to 13.1 on 6th @ 4000RPM @ 100% throttle?

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RidgeRacer


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Posts: 1309
posted August 16, 2010 10:32 PM        Edited By: RidgeRacer on 17 Aug 2010 13:33
quote:
Couple of new question to those that have used ECU programming or RR how has gone trough the code. I purchased Innovate LM2 and I'm in a process of installing it in near future. Been studying the different maps and the one I'm not sure what it does is the target AFR map. What is it used for? What is the formula ECU uses to calculate the duty cycle? RedRocket: have You altered just TPS and IAP map or have You altered other maps too?


You must have an older definition. When I first started doing this way back when I was not sure what the different function of the two fuel maps where and they went by several different names like target afr and volumetric efficiency. After more research I finally settled on Alpha-n and Speed Density

quote:
Note from the shop manual
(1) ...When the engine load is light like at idling or low speed, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle vacuum (vacuum sensor output voltage) and engine speed (crankshaft sensor output voltage). This method is called D-J method.
As the engine speed increases, and the engine load turns middle to heavy, the ECU determines the injection quantity by calculating from the throttle opening (throttle sensor output voltage) and the engine speed. This method is called α – N method.


α – N = Alpha-N
D-J = Speed Density
____________

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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted August 17, 2010 06:09 AM        
my bike wide open throttle wise holds i would say the same afr in the upper gears at a given rpm.
just driving easy though or changing your gearing will put the ecu into a different vacume colum for its fueling. that gets tricky.
do you know what i am saying?

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1015
posted August 17, 2010 01:59 PM        
Hello!

OK, that makes sense. Probaply the definition Psychegr used and the one that is available from active board site is just a little bit old in the terms as it uses Target AFR and Speed Density. But anyway now I know what to do.

And that is a good thing because dialing in the full throttle on street is somewhat difficult if You have to ride 11000 RPM on every gear - or at least it can get expensive By the way Redrocket, what kind of AFR are You targeting in the when the ECU is in D-J map (just cruising) and what are You targeting when at full throttle operation? Full throttle should probably be in 13.0-13.2 - or? But what about cruising speeds? Car's use 14.7 (, because of pollution limits) then but according to old but good Sportbike Performance Handbook by Cevin Cameron best mileage would be a little bit on lean side. I'm been thingkin about maybe 14.5-14.7 when doing very easy cruising say 60mph on straight highway and the bit by bit lowering it low 14, high 13 when still on D-J map but doing some acceleration...

After I have done some initial runs and appropriate changes to the map I think that I'll going to try that what I spoke earlier - removing first the MAP sensor and then riding and logging AFR and then removing the TPS sensor and do the same. Thats because if it works like the manual says and as RR has noticed in another Denso ECU it should then use only one of the maps exclusively and so I'm sure on what map it is. And that way I can address also those part maps that normally don't get used. And the main reason I think it will be benefitial is that this way I can better result in the area where ECU changes it mode from alpha-N to D-J and hopefully get a better rideability in the mid-rpms... I'll let You know when I get everything ready but It still takes some time as I haven't still welded the bung for the WBO2 sensor.

Redrocket still: Do You have an idea where about the change will happen? Is it more about RPM or just TPS position? Or does both ones differ?

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2000redrocket


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Posts: 1659
posted August 17, 2010 06:54 PM        
i guess you can do that but when you pull throttle more than say 1/2" of wrist movement it will go to the a-n. you can tell cause the density map numbers will not effect it.
i my self am shooting for 13.0 to 13.2. and if you ask on here you will get all sorts of numbers thrown at you from 12.5 to 13.0 wide open. i say be saft and go richer than leaner till you watch it.
get a logger before changing anything.
the density i shoot for 13.5 to 14.0 expecially in the 3000 to 4200 cruising rpm zone.

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RidgeRacer


Pro
Posts: 1309
posted August 17, 2010 11:00 PM        
The thing to also remember is that it is not a sudden switch. For example if the switch point is 10% TPS then the fuel value is a blend of the two map values something like....

TPS D-J Alpha-n
08% 100% 0%
09% 75% 25%
10% 50% 50%
11% 25% 75%
12% 0% 100%


____________

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tuusinii


Pro
Posts: 1015
posted August 18, 2010 12:05 AM        
Yes I remember and that is the main reason I think it will good idea to tune without one sensor connected. So that the both maps are good when ECU is mixing them in the transition phase...
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2000redrocket


Pro
Posts: 1659
posted August 18, 2010 06:16 AM        
i never tried to drive my bike one way or the other. i am thinking the ecu might not give you a 100% running cycle with one sensor unplugged or the other.
that would be the way to do it though. density wise i would not get real pickey with tuneing if you pull a lot of throttle.just steady driving and moderat throttle changes .

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tuusinii


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Posts: 1015
posted August 18, 2010 02:02 PM        
That is one thing I've been also wondering if the ECU goes to some limp mode, but RR said that on an another Denso ECU it didn't doo that - or atleast it looked like it didn't do that. I'll report back when I know. I think that without TPS it will be harder for the ECU because even at Speed-density map it probably uses the TPS opening rate for fuelling and ignition. But when just cruising lightly it should be OK. We'll see.
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sami1


Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
posted September 01, 2010 11:57 PM        
Finally I found 04-05 ecu from ebay (European version 21175-0028).

To download maps first step is cut notch or cut away ecu's hole surface to find out the connectors which are needed to downloading?

This is not going to be easy or quick operation for me and actually I'm not sure is this even possible with my skills but so what, lets try.

There is something about the 12's newer ecu:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=51297&set_time=

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