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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: Hacking the Planet one ZX-12 ECU at a time. NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
entropy


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posted July 11, 2007 06:18 AM        
RR,
Your intellectual curiosity continues to amaze me; i wish i had 1/2 your smarts and 1/10 your persistance!!!!! Solving the limiter issue will be a giant step fwd!!!

A couple years ago, when you helped me so much on the mph signal DTA convertor you would not take a direct "contribution" for your efforts.

But is there any possibility of making a donation to your favorite PAC in appreciaton of yr diligence???

Karl
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supra5677


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posted July 11, 2007 10:17 AM        
what about a limit of 12,349 to match the ram air correction map?
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ridgeracer


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posted July 11, 2007 03:12 PM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 11 Jul 2007 16:19
Bet you never thought you'd see something like this



I decided to just put an on/off setting for the Top Speed Limit. Does anyone actually want to adjust it? Also you can just turn off RPM limit checking, but I found a hard RPM limit in the code. These other limit values are part of the 'Map' data. In the actual code you can not exceed 12,445 RPM or the ECU will shut down ignition, injectors, and reset all engine variables. This applies regardless of the RPM limiter on/off setting.

Also it appears that the engine turns off the injectors and then the ignition when it limits the RPM for either redline or top speed. In the table above;

Limit is coils off
Limit-10 is coils back on
Limit-20 is injectors off
Limit-30 is injectors back on

It looks like they shutdown the fuel first leaving the ignition on to burn up any residual fuel.


I'll post the definition when I get it updated for the A1and A2 RPM settings too.



As for taking donations. I'm not sure how hard you would have to twist my arm these days. A couple years ago I was single and only supporting myself and my son and could afford to be generous. Since then I've remarried and added a wife and three teenage girls to my household.

I think any ECUs I modify in the future I will ask for a donation. A donation seems like a good idea . I know some of you are building bikes on a shoestring budget while others have a corvette and 4 bikes in their garage. With a donation you can pay what you think it is worth and afford.



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supra5677


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posted July 11, 2007 05:38 PM        
Cool.. Count me in.. I think a donation in appropriate considering how much dyno time cost.. Are you going to be able to change the ram air resolutions... Also should I change my clock crystal back to normal>?

supra

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rgeorge


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posted July 11, 2007 05:51 PM        
nice!
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entropy


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posted July 12, 2007 03:58 AM        
RR
Congrats on finding the rev limiter.

contribution is "in the mail"!!

You are DA MAN!

Karl
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supra5677


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posted July 12, 2007 06:37 AM        
The downside of modifying the clock crystal is that although it increases the rev limit, it decreases the length of all the injector pulses making the bike run 5% leaner everywhere. I would also assume that it changes the ignition to be shorter also.

Also 320kmh is actually 200 mph. The conversion is .625.. 320*.625=200mph

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ridgeracer


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posted July 12, 2007 07:21 AM        
I would change your crystal back otherwise most of the Enginuity definitions are going to be 5% off and you will have problems sharing maps with others. Also I think your mod has little effect on your timing. It turns out the ignition map values are fractions of a crank rotation in degrees. The software measures the current time it takes to move the crank 90 degrees and then advances some fraction of that so the actual crank speed has no effect on the degrees advance. In other words the same timebase used to measure the crank speed is used to measure the coil advance. The only thing your mod does is change which RPM row the ignition map data is pulled from.


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Seth ZX12r UK


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posted July 12, 2007 10:08 AM        
Where do you get this Enginuity software and how much is it?

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ridgeracer


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posted July 12, 2007 11:28 AM        

It's open source freeware and you can download it here...

http://www.enginuity.org/


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Seth ZX12r UK


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posted July 12, 2007 11:58 AM        

"Sorry but you are not authorized to view or download this Attachment"

keep getting the above message when trying to download

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ridgeracer


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posted July 12, 2007 01:01 PM        
They want you to register as a user before you download it.

Or you can get it here, but its not the latest version.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=3&topicID=9491456

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Seth ZX12r UK


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posted July 12, 2007 01:09 PM        
Thnx RR
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ridgeracer


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posted July 12, 2007 01:46 PM        
Here is the latest Enginuity definition that now includes;

Disable/Enable 186 mph Speed Restriction on A2, B1, and B2

Disable/Enable RPM Limiter on A1, A2, B1, and B2

Map to adjust RPM Limiter limit on A1, A2, B1, and B2

http://www.bikeland.info/downloads/ecu/zzr_defs_005.zip

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supra5677


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posted July 13, 2007 06:45 AM        
I'm very upset about my stator..The replacement I bought doesn't fit I know people are waiting to find out if it works... in the mean while I guess next we'll see what fruit the 1065 ECU brings..

supra

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ridgeracer


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posted July 13, 2007 07:22 AM        
I've thought about it and I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps its time to go back to plan A.

More than a year ago when I first started this project I sat down and figured out what we would have to do. I wrote...

quote:


Figure out how to read the memory of the CPU
Build an interface
Read out the code.
Disassemble the code, figure out where the map is and how it works.
Obtain a working ecu
build a bike emulator, an electronic psuedo bike to plug the ecu into to make it think its on a bike so we can experiment with the code
write User friendly PC software to interface with the ECU
Find a volunteer willing to street or dyno test modified code on a real zx-12r
Develop and document a simple build it yourself hardware interface.



Thanks to the guys at Enginuity.org and P&E Micro we've done every thing on that list, except one. Build a bike emulator. A bike emulator would be a device that looks like a real bike to the ECU. All the analog sensors can be simulated by 1.99 radio shack potentiometers (volume controls). All the digital lines can be simulated with simple switches, some like the vehicle down sensor could just be hardwired. The outputs like the coils and injectors would just be resistors with some LEDs thrown in so I can tell when the bikes 'running'. The only somewhat difficult part would be designing a box for the rotational sensors. It would need to put out crank pulses and a cam pulse every eighth crank pulse. In addition it would be adjustable so I could change the engine 'RPM' With this emulator I could then set the RPM, throttle, air pressure, temperature, water temperature and measure down to the microsecond how it effected the injector on time.

So why would I want to do this you ask?

Well we have all these maps, I've only defined for Enginuity the most basic ones, with all these numbers but what do they mean? Yes I have the software but there are over 12 different values used in calculating the final fuel number. Some of those come from maps, others are derived from 3 or 4 other values and some of those are from maps but others are derived from 3 or 4 variables. It quickly branches out into more than a hundred parameters.

I had hoped to build a mathematical model in a spreadsheet where I could change a parameter or map value and see how it effected the end result but I am looking at many many hours to do that. Then I though of building a software model. Porting the code to a PC platform so I could run a virtual ECU, mess with the map values and see how it changes the end result. But again thats a lot of work.

But now I'm thinking plan A. Why do I need to model an ECU when I have 3 of them sitting here on my desk? What I need to model is the bike, not the ECU.

Once the emulator is working I can go through and min/max all the maps and see how it effects the injectors. For instance there is a fuel pump voltage map. Apparently the fuel pump can't maintain the rated fuel pressure at lower voltages, like when starting the bike. With the emulator I could 0 the map on one end and 255 it on the other and then see how that range effected the injectors, all other settings being equal. This would be very hard to replicate on an actual bike, if it would even start and run.

I think a measured trial and error approach will be a lot faster, more accurate, and safer with the emulator. It will obviously be faster than having people mail their ECU to me, flashing it with a test value, mailing it back, waiting for them to get the bike on a dyno and test it, and reporting the results. That would be a 5 minute cycle on my bench with the emulator.

As for safe, the Admin at Enginuity.org called me '...one brave man' the other day. And my first reaction was not really, I'm not testing this on MY bike. That got me to thinking. If were going to do this we should do it the right way, not go off half cocked. I know a lot of you have poured a lot of time, effort, and money into your bike and I would hate to see one of you burn or blow up an engine or worse, get hurt, because we all got excited about being able to flash maps when we weren't a 100% sure we knew what we were flashing.

So my next project is a bike emulator, stay tuned.

Is there any chance one of you has a set of ECU wire harness plugs just sitting around your garage collecting dust?

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supra5677


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posted July 13, 2007 02:14 PM        
I'll ask 5-0 about the ECU wireharness plugs...
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supra5677


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posted July 13, 2007 02:38 PM        
I appreciate your honesty on this issue RR.. as I'm sure others do on this board...
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entropy


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posted July 13, 2007 11:09 PM        Edited By: entropy on 14 Jul 2007 01:39
RR,
I believe i have a "junk" y2000 harness. You just need the 2 ECU plugs hacked off???
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Port_Angeles_NINJA


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posted July 13, 2007 11:56 PM        
RR, would there be any benefit to having this this Emulator being a little smarter than a bread board with pots and switches?
I stumbled onto this thread while searching for some background info on doing a "virtual" (read: can be switched to stock or not so stock) Flies Out mod to my ZX14 that i saw discussed on the 14 forum by fury. That one I think i have figured mostly figured out (will cost about $800 more than just pulling the damn things, but more interesting and no mechanical changes).
I am a control systems engineer by trade, and daily work with PLC systems that are capable of generating all of the outputs, or inputs to the ecu, that you would need for your emulator. It seems like it would be useful in your quest to be able to have sensor inputs dynamically change in a way that made sense together rather than trying to adjust by hand. I know this could easily be done with the AB control logix or GE rx series, as well as a windows interface to set up your simulated run, or hundreds of simulated runs back to back, and log results. Unfortunately those cost a bit of money. Just as a guess $10,000 - $15,000 dollars for parts. I know there are a lot of smaller, lower cost PLC's out there ($200 - $500 range), but don't know if they have the horsepower to do the job. If you think something like that sounds interesting let me know and i can post what is available, what it can do, what the parts cost, and where you can get them. If you wanted to go that route i would be more than happy to help with, write, whatever, the plc(emulator) and computer(interface) programs.

In any case, Very Impressive work!!
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ridgeracer


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posted July 14, 2007 01:46 PM        
Small world. Here I thought I was the only Kawasaki loving, Industrial Controls guy living in PA. I think I've seen you drive by my house on Race St. on your blue 14

I'm familiar with the PLCs. I was the Vocational Electronics Instructor up at PAHS when they closed Rayonier. A friend of mine from high school was working there as a Mechanical Engineer and got them to donate all their PLC spares, programing PC and Ladder Logic instructional materials to the High School electronics program.

These days I do contract work for an OEM and design their hardware and software for a distributed processing control system on a RS-485 network. Because of that I have a lot of my clients prototype embedded microcontroller boards laying around, some with built in 4 line X 20 char LCDs and pushbutton 'menu' switches, that I can quickly reprogram in C and have huge library of existing functions for. I programmed one of these to act as a BDM interface early on in the project.

I Also plan to use one of those to generate the crankshaft and camshaft timing sensor pulses to input into the ECU. I'll set it up so it displays RPM on the LCD and then I'll use the UP / Down buttons to change the RPM.

Unfortunately their product has little use for analog outputs as its mainly access control for doors , gates, elevators and the like. I have some old ISA slot ADC/DAC cards but I figured in the time it would take me to dig them out, get an old PII motherboard out of the garage and get it fired up and then write the software for it I could have built and soldered up 5 pots, a rotary gear selector switch, and some switches for ignition, neutral, and starter in a project box. If I can get the results I need with that then it works for me. Of course now if I was being paid by the hour to do it....

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Port_Angeles_Ninja


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posted July 14, 2007 05:13 PM        
WOW, it is an amazingly small world. And i'm sure that is me (although i understand there is one other blue 14 in this area).

I moved up here in '05 to do all the control systems at the new hardwood mill we just built. Sounds like pretty much the same kind of job as you, autocad drawings, BOMs, Logic, Motion Control, Operator Interfaces, data acquisition and reporting. Although i know enough about what you do to know doing that stuff with today's PLCs and high level windows programming languages doesn't take the same kind of skill as doing it with embedded systems and machine language. Now i run the electrical department here and do the control system work for this and the other mills the company owns.

I started off with computer programming, Basic (when i was 11), Pascal (high school), C (college), Visual Basic (client - server database apps - first time i made money doing it). Then i got bored with computer programming and realized i could do this, still program, and make big equipment move at 30" per second to within a thousanth of an inch, I haven't gotten bored of that yet.

Now that we have motorcycles that can go almost 200 mph and use little computers that can be hacked the embedded stuff is getting pretty interesting to me again. Thanks for all the great information you have dug up. If there is anything you think i could do to help you with this or any future projects, let me know.

As far as being paid by the hour to do it this company could always use someone with your skills, but you are way overqualified for any job i have available here (even mine).

Do they still teach PLC's at the high school? what kind of PLCs was Rayonier using (just curious)

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Blue 07' ZX14

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Port_Angeles_Ninja


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posted July 14, 2007 08:03 PM        
Does the ridgeracer refer to hurricane ridge?
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ridgeracer


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posted July 15, 2007 08:27 AM        Edited By: ridgeracer on 15 Jul 2007 10:05
quote:
Does the ridgeracer refer to hurricane ridge?


Yes it does. I figured it out the other day and over the 25 years I've been riding I've literally been up there more than a thousand times. This time of year, when its daylight at 5:30, I would pretty much start off every day by going through a tank of gas going up and down the ridge. Sometimes you can make it all the way up and down without seeing a single car. If your still up there after 7:15 am pull over and take a breather, wave to the park ranger when he drives by between 7:20 and 7:40 and then go have some more fun Of course now that I'm married I only make it up there 1 or 2 mornings a week.

As for the PLCs it was never part of the curriculum. It was something that I would give my advanced students to work on as part of independent study. I don't remember the make of the units. There really isn't an electronics program up at the high school any more. When I left they replaced me with a middle school band teacher who knows how to build PCs. It is now basically a computer hardware class. No ohms law. No AC theory. No soldering. No how to use oscilliscopes, DVMs, etc. Its pretty sad but not unexpected.

I actually graduated from PAHS, class of 80, and I can honestly say I owe my career in electronics to the inspiration I got from that class. We had a ham radio room. Hey kids talk to people all over the world!! Now its like big deal I can do that on the internet. We had a huge satellite dish that we used to track weather satellites and equipment to down load images direct from the satellites. Our instructor won a national education award and him and some students were invited to Washington D.C to give a presentation on our satellite program. Now kids are like, big deal I can download weather pics off the internet. We had computers but we built them ourselves and loaded the software using front panel binary switches (IMSAI 8080) Now thats the way to teach binary hex conversion

So, how are you at reading Motorola 6816 assembly language?

Each version of ECU software has about 40,000 lines of this....




...that needs to have the variables identified by function and then comment function of the code segment so it ends up like this...




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Port_Angeles_Ninja


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posted July 15, 2007 08:21 PM        
"So, how are you at reading Motorola 6816 assembly language?"

Worthless today. I will get back to you in a day or two when i have done some research. Most of the things i have done in my life (all of them, i guess) i had no prior experience when i did them the first time. They were all successes anyway.

I have found that we are not limited by what we have done in the past, only what we believe we can do in the future. Also i suppose by innate ability but i have yet to hit that wall, i don't suppose this will be any different. I am extremely interested in the subject matter and i know that alone will allow me to learn it and make myself useful to your project.

I already can convert binary, hex, decimal, octal in my head and understand the flow of a program whether it be written in ladder logic, sequential function chart, C, basic, VB, etc...

Anyway, like i said i will get back to you in a couple of days when i have looked up the syntax used in Motorola 6816 Assembly Language, from there the rest should be easy. Some of the old school PLC's i have worked with (GE Series 1, TI) required loading an operand into an accumulator (stack location), then doing an arithmetic operation on it using another operand. Everything was octal. Also way back when in college one of the projects we did was to write a simulated assembly language compiler in C, it has been a long time and i forget all the specifics but i'm sure it will all come back to me when i start researching this.

On another note, are there any groups of people around here that go riding. A sawyer at work who also rides motorcycles has beeen complaining about the dearth of people to go out and ride with around here. I at least have my girlfriend to take with me but his wife does not like to ride with him.

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Blue 07' ZX14

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