ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 11, 2006 10:20 AM
Are the maps for cyc 1 and 4 the same and 2 and 3 the same?
I remember back in the carb days we fatten up the center cyclinders
due to them running hotter because of less cooling surface.
  
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted December 11, 2006 11:05 AM
Kinda.....There are far fewer changes between 1 & 4 than between 1 & 2. Also the changes between 1 & 4 only range from -10% to +9% while between 1 & 2 they range -16% to +20%. But they are not exactly the same.
Good catch though.
As this project progresses it is going to change from a computer/electronics project into a tunning project and while like most guys I can change a carb jet or raise a needle by shoving some washers under it but when it comes to dyno tuning etc I have no hands on experience. I'm counting on you guys to help me out when I get out of my depth.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 11, 2006 01:00 PM
Would I be correct in assuming that first gear was the strongest
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted December 11, 2006 01:43 PM
Being that the 142 value is higher than even the high rpm, high throttle values, that it's not graduated, just 142 all the way across the block, that it is only in the first 10% of throttle just off idle, and in such a limited rpm band my first impression is that it is some kind of engine restriction to keep people from getting their ass thrown off their bike in first gear.
It wouldn't be that hard to wire the gear shift switch so 1st and 2nd both look like 2nd and find out.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 11, 2006 01:50 PM
thats kind of what I was thinking.. Go 142 across the board in gears 1-6 and see what happens..
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted December 18, 2006 07:56 AM
I guess I was unclear about what I was saying. I think the uniqueness of the 142 value means it was put there to REDUCE engine power to prevent accidental loss of control (flipping the bike over on top of yourself) in first gear.
I think with 142 across the board the bike wouldn't even start, let alone idle. A better idea would be to add 10% or 20% across the map, something the Enginuity software can do very easily.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted December 18, 2006 08:28 AM
Housekeeping item....
So I won't be accused of trying to wreck this thread, again, I am giving everyone timely notice that sometime after Xmas but before New Years all my image and pdf links hosted on olympus.net in this thread will go dark. The amount of content and the number of views between this site, my site and other sites are exceeding my limits at my humble little local ISP.
I have moved all my content to another site for hosting that also should be much faster. Unfortunately because of site policy we are not allowed to go back and update our threads so I can't just update the links myself. The admins can either copy the material and host it themselves or go through the thread and update the links. Either way its out of my hands.
A list of the updated links can be found here:
http://www.bikeland.info/images/bikeland/23797/threadlinklist.txt
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tattz
Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
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posted January 01, 2007 12:59 PM
how can i get the link for your website ridge? im very interested in keeping up with this topic
 
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted January 01, 2007 09:33 PM
post it or pm me too.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted January 02, 2007 04:20 PM
You can find it Here
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tattz
Parking Attendant
Posts: 8
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posted January 02, 2007 09:49 PM
thanks man..
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lubricity
Expert Class
Posts: 362
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posted January 09, 2007 02:29 AM
Well we now know it has been proven with the Zx14 that the engine pulls harder in 6th gear. So there is a small piece of code that switches maps when in 6th gear. That is one key point we need to be able to change.
____________
a poor 12 owner
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted January 14, 2007 01:13 PM
I didn't see much progess at the other site.
Has the project stopped?
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted January 23, 2007 02:42 PM
Things kind of have been on hold for a while. I've just had no time to work on this project these last weeks for a number of reasons. After literally years of effort a custody 'disagreement' over my wife's children has been resolved in her favor with the result being that her 3 teenage daughters have moved up here and will now be living with us for a least the rest of the school year and probably longer. Needless to say things have been hectic here getting everyone settled in and to be honest my daydreams now tend more toward how to add another bathroom to my house, not how to reprogram ECUs.
Also I just bought a new '06 ZX-6R. I would of preferred a zx-10 but given my new financial realities settled for a the -6. So this weekend when I had a few hours to myself while the 'women' were off shopping for god knows what, yes, I could of worked on the ECU but chose instead to rip the ugly piece of crap they call a fender off my new bike and fabricate a license holder.
I'm sure things on the domestic front will calm down with time and that eventually I will get the new bike broke in so I don't have to spend all my spare time driving around town in circles. That is one thing I loved about the 12R; you could stay under the break in limits and still do 60mph on the highway.
I will try to make an effort to think about possibly doing something soon on the project if it's cold and rainy this weekend. 
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
Posts: 2207
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posted April 10, 2007 07:58 AM
so is this project officially abandoned?
____________
Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted April 12, 2007 03:57 PM
Not abandoned, just on sabbatical.
The ECU sits on right here on my desk and I look at it everyday, but the simple truth is I've been to busy. In fact I bought a new bike back in Dec and here it is mid April and I've only had time to put 1300 miles on it. It took me less than a year to put 25,000 miles on my last new bike.
On the other hand it would be kind of tempting to just claim 'Mission Accomplished'. The original object was to prove whether or not you could just plug something into your ECU and remap it. That has been proven true, more or less.
On the less side I've found that with a handful of resistors and a couple switches you can build a Mixture Adjustment Device (MAD) and change the Fuel Injection plus or minus 15% in the Lo Med and Hi RPM ranges by just plugging in to an existing wire harness connector.
On the more side you can totally re-map and or reprogram the ECU if you're willing to cut a notch out of the back of your ECU and solder in a plug. I don't think cutting a little notch in an ECU is going to scare the super-tuner type who yanks engines and throws big bore kits in them before breakfast.
So there is something for everyone. From the average guy who doesn't want the hassle and expense of a power commander but is worried his bike might be running a little lean with that aftermarket exhaust to the guy who builds midget racers with V8s made from two ZX-12 motors.
Of course knowing you can do it and actually doing it are two different things. As they say the devil is in the details. I know what you all want is for me to come on here and announce that I have a little black box you can buy or build and plug into your ECU and PC and remap your ECU. I would say we are half way there, but there is still a lot to be done. I guess all I can say is stay tuned.
Also I think it would help motivate me if I heard from those of you who think they would actually use a MAD or want to reprogram their ECUs. Sometimes I wonder if I'm on a fool's errand. We are talking about 4-7 year old bikes that are no longer manufactured. Those of you inclined to modify your bikes probably already have. If you could reprogram the ECU directly would you all really rip out your power commanders?
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted April 12, 2007 04:29 PM
 Edited By: ridgeracer on 12 Apr 2007 17:31
Ok, maybe we are more than halfway there. Look what I just found on the net.
quote:
P&E's USB CPU16/CPU32 MULTILINK is a debug interface which allows a PC access to the Background Debug Mode (BDM) on Freescale 68HC16/683xx processors. It connects between a USB port on a Windows 98SE/2000/XP/2003 machine and the standard 10-pin debug connector on the target.
By using the USB CPU16/CPU32 MULTILINK, the user can take advantage of the background debug mode to halt normal processor execution and use a PC to control the processor. The user can then directly control the target's execution, read/write registers and memory values, debug code on the processor, and program internal or external FLASH memory devices.
http://www.pemicro.com/products/product_viewDetails.cfm?product_id=14460000&CFID=731657&CFTOKEN=34682973
The BDM port mentioned is the port on the ECU you can get at by notching the back of the ECU. If this device worked then we are 90% of the way there. You could buy this box online, notch your ECU, connect this device, download your existing map, run it through the Enginuity software to modify the map, then download the new map into the ECU.
It's kind of pricey at $249 but my birthday is coming up and my wife was asking what I wanted.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 16, 2007 07:09 AM
You Ridge I got your back dude.. 249 bucks is nothing compared to 1000 for an ECU for kawi's zx6rs and zx10rs. Its funny my zx12r has been in many ways used as an experimental bike. My wifes' zx9r gets all the miles the last year or so. I know with her bike just fired it up and go. Old 41mm flat slides and d&d pipe is plenty. So ya I pulled the powercommander months ago in anticipation of you finishing this project.. Im sure Y2k, Doug M,etc would be interested as well..
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted May 17, 2007 11:33 AM
I'm sorta suprised nobody has told him to stop this, in a legal threat.
Bet Dynojet won't like it if this works out.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 17, 2007 02:17 PM
As of yet I have not violated any Intellectual Property Laws. When you buy the bike you own the ECU and all the data inside of it. You can look at it, modify it, etc. The only thing you can't do is sell a copy of it, modified or not.
As for Dynojet I don't think they have to worry. They don't make the ZX-12 anymore so they have probably sold 95% of all the ZX-12 units they ever will.
Of course in the Great American Tradition of the 100 mpg carburetor if someone wants to buy my silence I'm more than willing to discuss it.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted May 23, 2007 08:49 PM
so RR, ya saying it's little more than buying the doohickey and we're done? cause i gotta say, i would all but kill for this to work right now. the PC i have doesnt appear to do anything and my 12 is near unridable as is. i would LOVE to see this project brought to fruition, ideally in the next month or so, so it would be good to go for laguna. if i can do anything to help (including chip in on getting you that Multilink) i'm in.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted May 29, 2007 02:44 PM
quote:
so RR, ya saying it's little more than buying the doohickey and we're done?
Basically. If the Multilink works as advertised you can use it to download the map. Edit it with the Enginuity software and upload the modified copy. Of course there is the small detail of having to notch the back of your ECU and installing a connector.
Also I don't remember which model/year your bike is. If its a different model form the ones I have here then we will need to create a unique definition file for the Enginuity software. Each model of ECU needs a custom definition file that indicates the starting location and dimensions of each map. What I figured I would do is extend an offer to notch someones ECU for them if they had a model I hadn't downloaded before so that I could build up a definition library.
And keep in mind I haven't totally defined all of the map. I still haven't found the rpm limit yet for example.
Basically lack of disposable income is holding up the project. I've got a family and a new ZX-6 to support. If it comes down to a Multilink or putting food on my family or a set of Pilot Powers on the bike I'm afraid the multilink loses  My wife is a good sport when it comes to my motorcycle habit but when it comes to dropping $500 for an obscure piece of hardware to program a bike I don't even own that's a hard sell.
I've been trying though. I dug a bunch of my old electronics junk and a laser out of my closet and sold it on eBay for $620. But before I could buy the multilink something came up and I ended up spending it on the family. I'm supposed to be getting some money first week of June so who knows.
One thing you could do freek is see if you can beg, borrow or steal a copy of P&E Micro's Prog16z software. That would save $169
http://www.pemicro.com/products/product_viewDetails.cfm?product_id=68&CFID=731657&CFTOKEN=34682973
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted May 29, 2007 07:00 PM
Ridge racer... From having my bike on the dyno I'm 99% sure the rpm is 11625 plus or minus 25 rpms.. So you can probably program the rev limit as 11,600.. I also found the same number from Y2K's engine math... hope this helps
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted June 05, 2007 11:06 PM
don't know anyone who is likely to have that software i'm afraid. but as said, i'd be happy to chip in on getting you the equipment u need to get this to happen.
and my bike is an A1, but possibly different ECU given its CDN origin.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted June 11, 2007 07:06 AM
Hey RR. I found explanation for the increased ignition in the first gear. The 2002 advertisement from kawasaki states "revised ignition mapping for improved low end performance"... This explans why the increased ignition numbers in the map. It also menas that your reading of the code is correct 
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