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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: MCN TEST - 14 v Busa v 12R v BMW12 v XX NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
havabusa12r


Expert Class
Posts: 425
posted April 27, 2006 10:42 AM        
BTW-

FearsomeK will NOT be posting anything but the absolute truth.

He has NEVER posted BS!


____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)

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BigBoreBiker


Novice Class
Posts: 72
posted April 27, 2006 12:34 PM        
quote:
Yeah, too bad Suzuki pulled their ringer off the market after one year of production. Just think about all those poor SUCKERS who bought 2000 and later models thinking they were getting a fast bike!!

LMAO!
Where have you been, under a rock?
A little gadget called the TRE bypassed the limiter on all Hayabusas after 2000, and the 2000 was not limited.
____________
2007 Kawasaki ZX-14
2000 Suzuki Hayabusa

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hawkman


Zone Head
Posts: 747
posted April 27, 2006 01:06 PM        
quote:
quote:
Yeah, too bad Suzuki pulled their ringer off the market after one year of production. Just think about all those poor SUCKERS who bought 2000 and later models thinking they were getting a fast bike!!

LMAO!
Where have you been, under a rock?
A little gadget called the TRE bypassed the limiter on all Hayabusas after 2000, and the 2000 was not limited.


I guess I was under a rock because I didn't think that's what the TRE did. I thought it had something to do with 1st and 2nd gear only.

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havabusa12r


Expert Class
Posts: 425
posted April 27, 2006 01:09 PM        
The TRE tricks the bike into thinking that it is in 5th gear.

Suzi did the 186 BS by limiting the RPM in 6th gear.
____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)

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hawkman


Zone Head
Posts: 747
posted April 27, 2006 01:11 PM        
Just found this:

http://www.sgmotorsport.com/performance_tuning/ignition/timingretardeliminator.html


IVAN'S ORIGINAL AND THE WORLD'S BEST SELLING TRE
The TRE (Timing Retard Eliminator) is a device that allows much better throttle response in the first four gears on all EFI (Electronic Fuel Injection) Suzuki sport bike models. What the manufacturer has done is to make a separate ignition map for each gear. This has been done for either safety (Wheelies/wheelspins) and/or emissions reasons. However, it limits the power and smoothness of your bike in the first ½ turn of the throttle in gears one through to four.

But it still allows full timing at full throttle. As you shift up through the gears, the amount of throttle needed to access the advance curve decreases, until you make it into fifth gear and then it's gone. After the TRE installation, gear changing will be much smoother. The TRE will disable the speed limiter on the 2001 GSXR1000 and 2001 GSX1300R.

The new smart TRE005 requires no adjustment to idle speed or fuel mixture to maintain smooth idle quality. Same fitment as the TRE002.

Quick facts about the TRE
The TRE is a direct 'plug in' installation to your bike - no cutting or splicing
The TRE has no effect at full throttle
The TRE does have an effect at throttle openings up to ½ in gears one through to four at any RPM
The TRE will disable the speed limiter on the 2001 GSXR1000 and 2001 GSX1300R
The TRE is legally for 'race use only'

The TRE will work in all these models:
TRE002 fitment for suzuki sportsbikes
1998 and up TL1000S (use TRE-003 for 1997 TL1000S)
1998 and up TL1000R
1999 and up GSX1300R
1998 and up GSXR750
2001 and up GSXR600
2001 and up GSXR1000
2002 and up SV1000
TRE004: GSX1400 and V-STROM.
TRE006: ZX10 (2004 - 05 models) - see note below.
TRE007: GSX-R1000 (2005 model)


As of October 2004 Ivan has now developed a Timing Retard Eliminator (TRE006) just for the Kawasaki ZX10 - 2004 & 2005 models ( up above descriptions do not apply to the TRE006). This provides noticeably improved closed to part throttle response (much better on and off throttle.) Much smoother gear changes. Eliminates fuel shut-off at very light throttle with more part throttle power below 5000 rpm.


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havabusa12r


Expert Class
Posts: 425
posted April 27, 2006 01:16 PM        
In reality, there are very few bikes that actually 'needed' the 186 MPH limit, no matter what the liter bike boys think.


____________
(68 Yam 175 2-stroke)
(99 Copper Busa) (99 Duc 900 SS full fairing) (00 MV Agusta F4S) (02 Aprilia RSV Mille) (02 ZX 12r CTB) (03 KTM 950 Adv)
(04 Yam R1) (05 LE Busa) (07 ZX 14)

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ZREXER


Expert Class
Posts: 492
posted April 27, 2006 06:43 PM        
quote:
I've driven the K....tranny or not....no way it could hit a Busa. leave alone a 14


I'd have to agree. I have ridden a Busa a few times and it felt much stronger than the K1200S. I have to say the K1200S did surprise me how much power it did have considering it has shaft drive.

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park12r


Expert Class
Posts: 124
posted April 27, 2006 07:30 PM        
i never thought the 14 wil have higher top speed than the zx12r or busa..better handling,1/4 miles(faster to top speed than the 12 or busa)better brakes,better drag(clutch)....but higher top speed?7-8mph faster thats lot of difference..
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BobC


Pro
Posts: 1736
posted April 28, 2006 12:05 AM        
quote:
Did it not say All Deresticted

The only clue about this that I could find in the article was this comment; "The once mighty Suzuki now relegated to third in the speed ratings - not even able to reach it's restricted top end of 186." I don't think they said anything else about the other bikes. They did give an explanation about unplugging the speed sensor on the final drive sprocket of the ZX-14 to derestict it. They could then do just one run before the ECU missed this input and went into error mode.

It would have been a different result if they could have used a fresh 1999 Hayabusa and 2000 ZX-12R. I think they should have either derestricted all the bikes, or left them stock.

Next week should be interesting though, they are taking all five bikes on the road.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles

2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)

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BobC


Pro
Posts: 1736
posted April 28, 2006 12:17 AM        
quote:
In reality, there are very few bikes that actually 'needed' the 186 MPH limit, no matter what the liter bike boys think.



I agree, most bikes won't get near it. My box-stock GSX-R1000K5 did an electronically timed 183.7mph on a 2 mile runway, about the same as my 2003 stock Hayabusa. That was the best of several runs and my buddy, who's a bit more streamlined than I am, went 184.9 on his GSX-R. The speedo's which freeze at 186 were a good few percent optimistic, for example I did a run in fifth to see what it would do and although the speedo gave me 186mph and then froze the real speed was 177mph. The stock Hayabusa's and ZX-12R's at the same meeting were all there or thereabouts for top speed.
____________
Candy Thunder Blue 2006 ZZR1400
Stock wheelbase
Max: 205.4 mph in 1.25 miles

2012 ZZR1400 in Golden Blazed Green
Brock CT Full System. etc
Max: 203.1 in 1 mile (so far)

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zerMATT


Pro
Posts: 1931
posted April 28, 2006 04:37 AM        
quote:
I agree, most bikes won't get near it. My box-stock GSX-R1000K5 did an electronically timed 183.7mph on a 2 mile runway, about the same as my 2003 stock Hayabusa. That was the best of several runs and my buddy, who's a bit more streamlined than I am, went 184.9 on his GSX-R. The speedo's which freeze at 186 were a good few percent optimistic, for example I did a run in fifth to see what it would do and although the speedo gave me 186mph and then froze the real speed was 177mph. The stock Hayabusa's and ZX-12R's at the same meeting were all there or thereabouts for top speed.
Now THAT'S the type of commentary I love to read here... "been there, done that, got the t-shirt". First-hand experience is what it's all about. None of this "I heard that" or "I read this in a magazine" crap.

Thanks Bobc!!
____________
'06 Passion Red ZX-14 | Black D&D Slip-ons | Speedo Healer | V1 | zumo 550 | Heli-Risers | PhantomX

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brain


Expert Class
Posts: 136
posted April 28, 2006 07:49 AM        
If the busa will not reach a true 186,what has Suzuki done to the bike since 2000 to make it 11-12 mph slower, or was the 194 mph numbers we were fed for all these years real.I doubt BOLD NEW GRAPHICS actually slowed the bike down.Were those speeds ever sanctioned?
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nightmare


Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
posted April 28, 2006 11:01 AM        
I have seen many bikes run in the numbers as such given that a few mods have been done. I run with a lot of big boys and the hardest runner is a 03zx12. He has had his bike up to 197mph and all he has is a P/C, dropped teeth in the back and added 2 in the front. Right behind him is the 01 GSXR 1000 and a hayabusa ridden by busa man himself. Once busa man shoots gas, he has reached 203MPH. The 1000 is running a TRE as well and his bike is incredible when it comes to throttle response. We use the tre for wheelies on the stunt bikes.
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fullzx12r


Zone Head
French Guy
Posts: 864
posted April 28, 2006 06:57 PM        
anyone can do scan of this MCN article, pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee ?????
____________
zx-12r 01'
zzr 1400 06'
hayabusa 08'
zzr 1400 12'

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ridgeracer


Pro
Posts: 1309
posted April 28, 2006 08:39 PM        
quote:
Interesting how they described a one-off deristriction for the top speed test. They disconnected the plug from the counter on the final drive sprocket, robbing the ECU of speed information. This gave them one run without the restrictor before the "brain" missed the input and put the bike into error mode.

Maybe the way to do it properly is with a small logic divider circuit, just slow the pulses down. Come on all you electronics wizards


Actually I found the easiest way is to feed the tach out of the ecu into the speed input. PM me and I'll email you how to do it with two bucks of radio shack parts. Or maybe I'll put it pack up on my website.

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FearsomeK


Novice Class
Posts: 96
posted April 29, 2006 05:41 AM        
quote:
If the busa will not reach a true 186,what has Suzuki done to the bike since 2000 to make it 11-12 mph slower, or was the 194 mph numbers we were fed for all these years real.I doubt BOLD NEW GRAPHICS actually slowed the bike down.Were those speeds ever sanctioned?



Nothing has been done.

They later models are infact slightly stronger in hp than the 99s were.

The early bikes that went to the mags achieved speeds (although not on certified lights admittedly - usually radar) that were never repeated at ANY top speed event ANYWHERE in the world. Doug Meyer and a few others say that those in the industry knew full well they were ringers.

In 7 years, the fastest stock Busa speed at any venue in the UK, with literally 1000s of runs and hundreds of different riders is 188mph. Prior to the 188 run, which had a major tailwind, it was 184. Most stock Busas stop pulling at low 180s.

It's an identical story at the US top speed events. One guy, THE ICE MAN, who is known as one of the best top speed racers in Florida, specifically went out on three stock busas over a couple of weeks and got low to mid 180s every time. That's all it has, and ever had.

Incidently the 12R holds the fastest stock bike recorded speed in the UK on certified lights at 190 although like the busa most are in the 180s.

Neither bike is a genuine 190mph bike as every near 190 speed has benefitted from a tailwind in my experience, no matter how gimp-like the rider.

That 189 shows the 14 has a good deal more up top than the other two which start to struggle past 180.


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nightmare


Pro
ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
posted April 29, 2006 06:47 AM        
I'd like to see a scna article of the mcn too if somebody has it!
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lou_zx12r


Expert Class
One Day at a Time
Posts: 196
posted April 29, 2006 11:12 AM        
quote:
He has had his bike up to 197mph and all he has is a P/C, dropped teeth in the back and added 2 in the front.


That would be 20 teeth from and something like 42/43 rear. Any idea what the final ratio was that he was going for? and why the 20 front not simply 41/42 rear only?

I'm not doubting this I'm more curios as to why the combonation. I've run 18/44 and like it for cruising but for playing around at mid to high speeds I prefer stock 18/46.

lou
____________
2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14

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frEEk


Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9659
posted April 29, 2006 12:00 PM        
quote:
I have seen many bikes run in the numbers as such given that a few mods have been done. I run with a lot of big boys and the hardest runner is a 03zx12. He has had his bike up to 197mph and all he has is a P/C, dropped teeth in the back and added 2 in the front. Right behind him is the 01 GSXR 1000 and a hayabusa ridden by busa man himself. Once busa man shoots gas, he has reached 203MPH. The 1000 is running a TRE as well and his bike is incredible when it comes to throttle response. We use the tre for wheelies on the stunt bikes.

there's gotta be more to this. no way is a stock + PC and gearing 12 gonna do a REAL 197 (i'm suspicious of the measuring method). That's got to have a pipe on it, or blueprinted or something. Air filters? and did that require tailwind? can't go making claims like that without being very specific.

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nightmare


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ACP Racing
Posts: 1797
posted April 29, 2006 04:59 PM        
that BMW is oo expensive for this shit!
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Phantom Menace


Expert Class
Posts: 169
posted May 02, 2006 01:21 PM        Edited By: Phantom Menace on 2 May 2006 14:24
quote:
quote:
I have seen many bikes run in the numbers as such given that a few mods have been done. I run with a lot of big boys and the hardest runner is a 03zx12. He has had his bike up to 197mph and all he has is a P/C, dropped teeth in the back and added 2 in the front. Right behind him is the 01 GSXR 1000 and a hayabusa ridden by busa man himself. Once busa man shoots gas, he has reached 203MPH. The 1000 is running a TRE as well and his bike is incredible when it comes to throttle response. We use the tre for wheelies on the stunt bikes.

there's gotta be more to this. no way is a stock + PC and gearing 12 gonna do a REAL 197 (i'm suspicious of the measuring method). That's got to have a pipe on it, or blueprinted or something. Air filters? and did that require tailwind? can't go making claims like that without being very specific.



Definately didn't run those speeds without a full exhaust system... no way, not enough power.

I own a 2003 ZX-12R with a full Akro race system, pc3, K&N's (now BMC race), 18/44 gearing, lowered 1 inch, with a "so-so" map in it....

I was 230lb's at 6'2" at the time.... I ran on 195mph on GPS in about 1.5 miles. The bike only made 175rwhp sae on the dyno. My friend who happens to weigh 150 lbs got on the bike 10 minutes earlier and ran 199mph on GPS in the same distance.

On a different day, my 150 lb friend (who happens to own a 2003 ZX12R with the SAME MODS) did a run on HIS bike using GPS..... Guess what? 199mph on GPS (no, he wasn't using the same GPS unit)

In just 9/10th's of a mile it ran 193mph on GPS... so it's no wonder it ran 199mph in well over a mile.

Either way, to run 197mph on GPS you need around 175-180rwhp + a good rider on a GOOD day.

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psycho1122


Pro
Posts: 1607
posted May 02, 2006 08:00 PM        Edited By: psycho1122 on 2 May 2006 21:02
I'm 230 with leathers. Back in 2001, I went 196 mph (Radar and GPS verified) with a 2000 ZX12R.

Only mods were: Muzzy full exhaust, PCIII with map and Muzzy advancer running +4.

Rear wheel H.P. was 173.

I wish I had sealed up the Ram Air system BEFORE that run. I know It would of made a difference!!
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!

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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: MCN TEST - 14 v Busa v 12R v BMW12 v XX NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY

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