entropy
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posted February 06, 2006 02:02 PM
quote:
I heard mayonaise works well. Hellman's - not the cheap stuff.
AND, it is low carb (for you Atkins folk)
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 06, 2006 03:02 PM
Hey, what kind of distortion have you guys seen on the big end when pressing the new bolts in? Are they going out of round? Typically when you press in new bolts in automotive stuff the big end distorts and needs to be honed. I should have the rod bolts soon and I'll check this when i replace them.
This could be an area of potential trouble that you would never see with plastiguage.
I'll know more about this when I get the bolts and replace them.
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gunner
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posted February 06, 2006 06:08 PM
 Edited By: gunner on 6 Feb 2006 18:10
quote:
This could be an area of potential trouble that you would never see with plastiguage.
.
I never use Plastigauge simply because I've never been able to get repeatable numbers with it. I don't trust the stuff or myself useing it. Nothing replaces an OD mic and Bore mic for perfect numbers.
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entropy
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posted February 07, 2006 02:12 AM
quote:
I never use Plastigauge simply because I've never been able to get repeatable numbers with it. I don't trust the stuff or myself useing it. Nothing replaces an OD mic and Bore mic for perfect numbers.
My experience exactly.
The mic method would repeat numbers so exactly, i could even consistently see thermal expansion on a hot day vs a cold day.
With the fukken plastigage i couldn't get consistent numbers even on the same day. 
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MadMike
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posted February 07, 2006 08:36 AM
Hey entropy... where did you get an ID mic at?
I am looking for one but I want to get a good one?
thanks
MM
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Big Al
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posted February 07, 2006 09:04 AM
Hey Mad Mike usually lurking but always get good info from this forum
For the record I don't have any connection with Tavia But have generally been very happy with their quality & price. I've been using there gauge for a few years now with good consistency. $139 I think
http://www.tavia.com/01400_rod_bolt_stretch_gauge.html
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MadMike
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posted February 07, 2006 10:43 AM
Awsome, thanks Big Al!!!
http://www.tavia.com/01400_rod_bolt_stretch_gauge.html
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wedrivezs
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posted February 07, 2006 01:10 PM
Gunner, chill out, I'm just poking you with a stick.
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gunner
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posted February 07, 2006 03:01 PM
quote:
Hey entropy... where did you get an ID mic at?
I am looking for one but I want to get a good one?
thanks
MM
Hey Mike.............If you get a good ID mic it will cost alot, BUT!! eBay is a great place to buy very high end measuring stuff cheap!!! Man I made a living as a Machinist for years and spent BIG bucks buying tools Then I found out that I could have saved a ton on ebay..  As a general rule and I don't know why, BUT when most machinist retire they damn near give their tools away........strange to me... I've had old retiring guys walk up to me in shops where I've worked and say "Here you can have my whole box and everything in it for 250 bucks!!" NO SHIT! I guess now they eBay the stuff.
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gunner
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posted February 07, 2006 03:02 PM
quote:
Gunner, chill out, I'm just poking you with a stick.
Dude I'm as cold as a tomb stone 
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kcadby
Pro
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posted February 07, 2006 06:16 PM
I've done it both ways...
Never checked stretch on stock bolts though
ALL motors are still alive...
ALWAYS check/torq by stretch #s on Carrillos...
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entropy
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posted February 08, 2006 12:04 AM
Edited By: entropy on 8 Feb 2006 00:19
Mike,
i got the bore gage to check cylinders but it works fine on the bearings:
THETOOLWAREHOUSE.net.
Qty Name SKU Price Sub Total
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Fowler 72-646-400 XTENDER CYLINDER DIAL BORE GAGE - 1.4" to 6" Range Order# FOW72-646-400FOW72-646-400 (it's about $94)
I know this isn't the highest grade tool, but it does get repeatable measurements.
I use it in conjunction with a Mitutoyo 1-2" digital micrometer for bearings (it reads to 1/2 a tenth, repeatable to a tenth)
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entropy
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posted February 08, 2006 12:21 AM
quote:
Awsome, thanks Big Al!!!
http://www.tavia.com/01400_rod_bolt_stretch_gauge.html
althought that is a very cool tool, it seems to only be good for that one function; why not get a 1-2" digital micrometer??? (also good for bearings)
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MadMike
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posted February 08, 2006 11:06 AM
I like your idea thanks Karl!!!
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big al
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posted February 08, 2006 11:55 AM
1.At times you can't get a micrometer in the space allowed to measure.
2. Rod bolt gauge offers much better repeatability (being able to seat into the dimples of the rod bolts)
3. Measure the stretch as you torque the bolt
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 08, 2006 01:54 PM
Well in order to use a rod bolt stretch guage with accurate repeatability, you would need to dimple both ends of the rod bolts. Kawi didnt dimple them so readings can vary widely.
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entropy
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posted February 08, 2006 03:42 PM
quote:
Well in order to use a rod bolt stretch guage with accurate repeatability, you would need to dimple both ends of the rod bolts. Kawi didnt dimple them so readings can vary widely.
Thase a fack! Except my readings didn't "vary widely", maybe a few tenths, and the Carillo spec is in thousanths, not tenths.
Anyway, i don't know what the stretch spec is on stock bolts???
Don't have a dimple???, simply put a ball bearing in the nut side, mic on the flat side; works (repeatably) on both Carillos and stock.
Sorry Al, each to his own, but i would rather spend the $$$ on a quality digital mic which I can also use on the bearings. Also, on carillos, i really don't know what wrench or socket would allow you to tighten the nut while having the stretch tool attached????
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 08, 2006 04:25 PM
I guess i'm lucky in the fact that I dont have to buy these nice measuring devices for this type of work. A very good friend has a full race engine machine shop, dyno, flow bench, the whole works. We worked together for years. One hand washes the other. I do stuff for him, he does stuff for me... ya know.
But If I had to buy them I dont think i'd buy the cheepest guages I could find.
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Big Al
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posted February 08, 2006 05:08 PM
Edited By: big al on 10 Feb 2006 10:29
I don't remember if the kaw bolts have dimples or not, haven't put one together since last spring. If they don't it wouldn't be a bad idea to dimple them so your always measuring in the same spot and your gauge doesn't move. Again the main advantage of a stretch gauge is you can measure the bolt as your tightening it so you always get the same stretch readings (repeatability). But I don't remember having a problem on the zx10/11's I've done. where the stretch was something like .010 or .012 from what I remember. But with the 12 you would have to torque + angle them according to the manual and measure the stretch. Unless somebody has already done this and has the numbers.
They say you can reuse rod bolts if they don't stretch more than 15% from first torque but I always use knew ones cheap insurance.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 09, 2006 05:20 AM
Is it my computer or do I see funny things in the above post?
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Big Al
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posted February 09, 2006 03:41 PM
Y2KZX12R
I don't know what part looks funny to you, or are you just beiing an ASS.
Maybe I wasn't clear with the 15% . Measure the free length of the bolt. If the total stretch should be .010 you shouldn't reuse the bolt if the free length measures .0015 longer than original measurement. But as I said I always use new bolts.
Also it's not unusual for shops to machine a small countersink (dimple) in the rod bolts to hold the gauge. I'm sure your machine shop buddy would do that for you.
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kcadby
Pro
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posted February 09, 2006 04:13 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 9 Feb 2006 16:15
VERY funny things??? up there ???
We use a BoltStretch Guage (NOT a cheap one) 
It's easy if you use an "automatic punch" (spring loaded, snaps when you push it) to dimple the bolts for the guage...
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Big Al
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posted February 09, 2006 04:19 PM
Edited By: big al on 10 Feb 2006 10:32
entropy
There is nothing wrong with using a mic to check how much the bolts stretched, but the preferred method is to stretch the bolt to maximum clamping force in one continuous motion. Whether you're measuring stretch or using the torque angle method.
As I said I never had my 12 apart, and I'm not sure what the carrillos are like but there are many torque adapter wrenches available for this.
As for your mic you can get an adapter to hold the ball bearing on if you don't already have one.
Any way I'm knew to this board, and don't want to start a pissing match. Just trying to give some input
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Y2KZX12R
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posted February 09, 2006 04:43 PM
LOL no really, I see funny symbols. it looks like a rounded "E" and a TM like a trademark symbol....
No one else sees this?
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osti33
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posted February 09, 2006 04:44 PM
quote:
LOL no really, I see funny symbols. it looks like a rounded "E" and a TM like a trademark symbol....
No one else sees this?
I see it.
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