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BIKELAND > FORUMS > ZX12R ZONE.com > Thread: D207s 190 wider than 200,and NEW TOPIC NEW POLL POST REPLY
MO


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posted October 21, 2001 01:20 PM        
D207s 190 wider than 200,and

It handles great! I never got real comfy on my bike 4000 mi went to get a new tire and thought the 190 looked wider bigger then shit aprox 3mm then I went for a ride and thought shit it falls into the corners after a couple twisties I was layin over like a pro I guess it just felt right and gave me more confidence. met a guy whos scrapin ZX12, body parts, shit his peg feelers are worn 1/2 off it was his sugestion. just thought it was worth a mention
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KW

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swft


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posted October 21, 2001 01:46 PM        
I'm endurance racing my red 1270 bike next season. Mods so far include Ohlins, RaceTech on the front and Marchesini wheels. For tires, I went with BT56SS, cuz I wanted to try a 190, but wanted it in a soft compound, which I couldn't get in the 207s. Some guys are putting 180s on their 12s, but the thought of putting a 180 on a 6 inch, when a 5.5 inch is specified, kinda scares me!
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2


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redelk


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posted October 21, 2001 02:50 PM        
200/50 vs. 190/50 vs. 180/55

A 180/55 will work on a 6" rim with no problem at all. I'm about to put on my third 180/55 Pilot. The 6" rim does not change the overall measurments or cause any stress / distortion of the sidewall. I had a 180/55 on at the Gap and Lucky12 runs one as well.

I've always believed that when one changes brand of tires, they should consider adjusting their suspension. Not just because of the possible difference in grip, but because not two brands of tires are the exact same size. Even when the sidewalls of both read the same (i.e. 190/50-17). There's some interesting aspects about these 3 sizes of tires.

The 180/55 is almost identical to the 200/50 in every demention except the width. The 200 is about .75" wider then the 180. The reason they are so close is the aspect ratio. the 200 is 50% and the 180 is 55%. The 6" rim really doesn't alter the tire's measurements, since it's just moving each of the tire's beads outward .25" on each side. In reality, it actually less than that.

So, when you compare the numbers below, you'll see that the 190 is substancially different in size, when compared to both the 200/50 and the 180/55. The numbers are as follows:

1st - 200/50 / 2nd - 190/50 / 3rd - 180/55

Sidewall Height (inch): 3.94 / 3.74 / 3.90
Tire Width (inch): 7.87 / 7.48 / 7.09
Tire Diameter (inch): 24.87 / 24.48 / 24.80
Tire+Wheel Radius (inch): 12.44 / 12.24 / 12.40
Tire Circumference (inch): 78.14 / 76.91 / 77.90
% Difference: 0 / -1.58 / -.32
Revolutions per mile: 810.10 / 823.85 / 813.39
Speedometer Reading: 60.00 / 60.96 / 60.19

In reality, all three sizes work just fine on the 12R. It's just personal preference.
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Big_Zx12r


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posted October 21, 2001 02:54 PM        
Good Info to know! Thanks!
-Big Zx12r

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MO


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posted October 21, 2001 10:50 PM        
the 190 measures wider then the 200 is the 50% actual or advertised % of the width? the main diff is that the 190 is not as round thru the tread very noticeable all I know is I can feel a very positive difference the dealer also told me thers a 207RR softer rubber same pattern figure Ill get one for the front. any body tried a differnt size front tire?
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KW

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swft


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posted October 21, 2001 10:54 PM        
Hey Sherman!

Long time no converse_on_the_same_thread thingy!

The 190 will gear me down a bit, yep yep. That shouldn't really be much of a problem tho, as there's almost no track where I want to routinely bust 190. 170 is ok, but 190 is just _too_ fucking intense! I'm looking at getting away from intense street riding, and mainly playing on the racetrack. What does this mean for me? Well, I'm selling the RC 51, as it is neither a good street bike, or a competitive race bike (unless you want to invest a good solid $30k over the cost of the bike) in current state of tune. Along with that, I'm also selling my WR250F, as I just don't have time for woods riding, etc... That will leave me with the SV650 for roadracing, the 1270 bike for endurance racing, and the 1347 for drag racing / land speed stuff. At some point in time, I'll prolly move up to a faster class in roadracing, but the SV is just so *fun* to ride! You can stuff it into the corners without scaring yourself to death on it. Peace man, talk atcha later!
____________
82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2


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magzx12r


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posted October 22, 2001 04:28 AM        
I am due for a new rear tire soon. I will go with the 207 in the 190 width. With the 190, your rear end is lower. Did this affect the handling?

The next time I need a new rear, the front should be worn also. I plan to try the Michelin Pilot Sports.
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Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S

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redelk


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posted October 22, 2001 05:34 AM        
Yeah, it has been a while swft!

Mo, like I said earlier, every manufacturer tire sizing vary. My "chart" treats the measurements as "hard numbers" (i.e. 190 actually equaled 190mm... which it never does). Still, I'm a hard pressed to see a 190/50 being wider then a 200/50.

As the chart indicates, under normal sizing measurments, the 200 is .39" (almost 10mm) wider then the 190 and .78" (almost 20mm) then the 180. Now swft, who has far more road racing experience then I, would probably agree with me that when it comes to improving the bike's handling... "wider is not always better". Usually, a wider rear (or front) tire will require more input to get the bike to respond.

There are a ton of "real world" variables. Tire temps and pressures have an effect of the size and shape of the tire's profile. Even when the measurements are the same, each tire manufacturer has their own profile design that they use depending on that tire's use.

For example, I believe the profiles of Michelin Pilot Sports and the Dunlop D207 are radically different. Though they might measure the same, the Michelin Pilots have a more "V" like profile, while the Dunlop D207s is more "U" shaped. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. A "V" profile will respond to input faster and with less effort, but a "U" profile will be more stable and predictable. Again, temp and psi can affect how either one responds.

The main reason I chose the 180/55 over the 190/50 is that the 180 is closer in size to the 200 then the 190. In other words, the 190 has a greater effect on the the bike's rear ride height. Not that lowering the rear height is necessarly bad, and it's not really by that much (less then 1/4", but the 180 is only .035"). Still, it could easily require more "fine tuning" of the suspension to deal with this change. That was not the direction I wanted to go.

When the designers created the overall geometry of the bike's handling characteristics, there are many factors used to balance the aspects of handling and stability. Some of these inclued frame design (i.e. rake & trail, wheelbase, etc.), suspension compenents and of course, tire sizes.

I have done several things to my bike, altering the results of these high dollar, lab coat clad and well educated engineers. I have move the forks up 1/2", moved the rear wheel as far forward as practically possible (shortened the chain) and have made numerious changes to the suspension settings and sag.

Is what I have done better then what these engineers came up with? Yes and no. They designed a balance between quick handling response and high speed stability. Since I don't do a lot of high speed riding (the fastest I've ever gone is 169.7 "actual"), I shifted my "balance" more towards the "quick handling response" side.

Now it's just as easy to go too far in either direction. A 6" swingarm extension does not make for a preferred set up in the twisties. I have switched the front tire to a 120/60. IMHO, this too is going too far. The 120/60 lowered the front end an additional 1/2" and make the bike a tad more twitchy then I like. I plan on switching to a 120/65, but odds are, I'll be going back to the 120/70.

Now, keep in mind, I'm just speaking from my personal experience and preferences while using Pilot Sports. Dunlops could just as easily produce different results.
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MO


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posted October 22, 2001 10:31 AM        
Mag, I think it is much better Redelk we laid the tires flat on the floor and looked across the checked again after it was mounted. the big difference was the U shape the 200 was the whole U and the 190 is less roundI noticed the dragon 200 is shaped more like the 207/190 let me know how you like the 120/65
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TIM


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posted October 22, 2001 10:41 AM        
safety?

Redelk, the marketing brochure says the 200 was specifically desinged for my trike. Is there any safety (high speed) concerns with swapping the 200 bt010 with a 190 bt010? They're both Z rated (if that's the right nomenclature...)

That's the only thing stopping me so far, flame away!

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redelk


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posted October 22, 2001 03:00 PM        Edited By: redelk on 22 Oct 2001 22:05
Tighten that belt

Some claim it's a technological break-thru. Others say it's just hype so they can charge so much for the 200 sized tires. What is it? Steel, my man. Steel. Many of the 200s are unique to their smaller brethern, becuse the 200s have a steel belt instead of a nylon, rayon or whatever.

From what I understand (someone can correct me if I'm wrong... please), the main benefit of the steel belt over the others is that it greatly reduces tire growth during hard acceleration. It makes sense when you look at the rear tire of a top fuel or funny car as they launch off the line.

Dunlop was the first to introduce such a tire for public consumption as an OEM tire on a bike. I'm sure you can guess which bike that is, eh? Other manufacturers have followed suit and have introduced their versions of a 200 with a steel belt. Many of them can give you volumes of information that point out why the steel belt is SO IMPORTANT!

It's not like they are lying. Oh no. Being in the advertising industry for over a quarter of a century, we do not lie! No, we just put emphasis on the finer points of the product or service. Okay... okay... and sometimes we forget to mention some of the "minor" drawbacks. But hey! Did you know that toothpaste can be posionous? Check the label. You don't see 'em talking about that while that "beautiful TV couple" are in that big lip lock, eh?

Anyway, it's easy to conclude that because of the speeds the 12R is capable of, a steel belted tire is the only way to go, right? Just playing the devil's advocate here, but how come there isn't a steel belted tire on what the magazines consider to be the world's fastest production bike ever built... the '99 Suzuki Hayabusa? No flames... please. Don't kill the messenger on this one.

So, if the '99 Busa came with a 190/50 and it didn't have a steel belt, I'd personally feel that it calls some of that "must have or else" thinking into question. While questioning this, I started to wonder how many other bikes that spend ALL their time operating at very high speedsand sometimes in adverse conditions.

Road racing. How many road racing tires have a steel belt in them? Drag racing? Now as far a drag racing tires go, I really don't have a clue. Still, I do kinda doubt that all of them have a steel belt in them. I could be wrong.

It boils down to this... I think the addition of a steel belt is very inovative. I also think that these tires have yet to have proven themselves superior to those that don't have a steel belt, in any way, form or fashion. I have yet to hear of a Busa's tire letting go, exploding, seperating or anything else due to the fact that they do NOT have a steel belt.

One thing they really don't push is "safety". Why? Because the tires with the steel belt have not been proven to be better. While I was wondering, I started thinking that a steel belt could possibly retain heat better then tires without a steel belt. There's probably nothing to this, but then again, couldn't the steel belt just as easily cause the tire to OVERHEAT and the seperate?

Like I said, there is likely nothing to this and I haven't heard of any steel belted tires doing this (Firestones don't count), either. One thing I DO KNOW for sure, the steel belt in NO WAY improve the wear of the tire. I went through around TEN D207 200/50 tires. The average wear was around 2000 miles.

It's important to note that I DO NOT do hard launches, wheelies or smoking burn outs. Hell, I still got the OEM clutch and plates and they have over 26,000 miles on them! Another thing I learned about the D207 was as soon as you started seeing what looked like small cuts running left to right in the middle of the tire, the steel cords would be showing through REAL SOON! Usually within a few hundred miles of LESS!

If you see the steel cords, in less then about 100 miles, it would get substancially worse. Now this can vary radically, depending on the condion of the road sufaces and how hot the tire gets. In Arkansas, the road surfaces are very gritty and the do get rather hot.

I have not run a 190 or 180 Dunlop (not counting the 40+ 190s I ran through on my '97 7R) on the 12R. When I ran my first Pilot Sport rear, the mileage increased almost 50%. The interesting thing is that the mileage on the front Pilots went DOWN when compared to the D207s! I used to get 3500 to 4K out of a front D207. By that time, the front would be so cupped, I could have used it as a "sand paddle" tire.

Something else to think about... this tire was designed specifically for the 12R, right? Of course it was. Then again, so was the exhaust system. How many have kept the OEM system on their bikes because it was designed specificlly for the 12R?

Just my opinion. In other words, if your tire blows up because it didn't have a steel belt, don't blame me!
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-Ernest Hemingway

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hondo


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posted October 22, 2001 08:56 PM        
Would the soft compound roadrace tires provide more traction at a dragstrip? I realize they have to be heated to proper temperature to grip. Tire heater?
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MO


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posted October 22, 2001 09:36 PM        
well I woke up with a thougt, is it posssible they measure the tire around the tread? if thats the case the 200 is definatly wider. I rode some again last night. I can say for sure, I wont buy another 207/200! I may try the pirelli dragon 200. has anyone tried one yet? the dealer here talks them up big time
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TIM


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posted October 23, 2001 02:18 AM        
steel = radial ?

Redelk, I have the BT010 200 on now and was thinking of moving to BT010 190. The 207's were gone in 2500 miles; the BT010 200 rear has 4800 now and still going.

I looked at the Dunlop and BS sites at the 207 and BT010 respectively, they both say 'radial', neither say 'steel'.

Further, both sites appear to categorize their 200 & 190 as RADIALs.

So I guess I'm confused on the steel vs radial thing.

I'm confused on the busa comment too. I had a 00 busa with a BS190 bt57J and thought it to be a 'steel belted radial'.



(thanks for the reply)

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FuckMeRunnin


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posted October 23, 2001 03:38 AM        
I had to put a 190 on my first rear tire change (if I wanted to ride that weekend)I didn't like it as well as the 200.
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speedgeek


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posted October 23, 2001 07:51 AM        Edited By: speedgeek on 23 Oct 2001 15:00
Pilot (Soft) Race tires....

Installed a fresh set of Pilot Race tires, the "Soft" compound. (low temp use)

120/70 & 180/55

Well, I'm never, (ever) going back to the Dunpop 207's!


And another thing...the rear 207 was a major pain to get off the rim!! & Pilots didn't need to be balanced!!

As for my 12, it's only going to be wearing pilots.


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redelk


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posted October 23, 2001 08:42 AM        
All of today's sport bikes use radials. The "R" on the sidewall is the indicator (i.e. 200/50ZR-17). The "Z" is the speed rating. Actually The "58W" (120/70) and 75W (200/50) are the load and speed index. the "58" is a load index of 520 lbs. and the "75" is 853 lbs. A "W" speed index is 168 mph and a "(W)" is >168 mph. Don't ask me where they come up with this stuff.

Most car radial tires are combination of steel and polyester belts. For example, my truck's Bridgestone Desert Duelers, they have 2 steel and 2 polyester belts in the tread and 2 polyester belts in the sidewalls. It's very easy to believe that if it's a radial, it has steel belts. How often have you heard the phrase, "Steel Belted Radials"? Countless, I'm sure. It's just that this applies to automotive tires, not bike tires.

Most bike radials have just nylon or polyester belts. The BT010 uses Kevlar, not steel. I don't think Bridgestone has jumped on the "steel belt bandwagon" as of yet. I'm also not too sure about the Metzler's Rennsport or Avon's Azero. To the best of my knowledge, the Dunlop's D207 (200/50 only), Pirelli's Corsa and Michelin's Pilot Sport (HPX series only) are the only ones using steel belts.
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TIM


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posted October 23, 2001 09:02 AM        
:)

Thanks Redelk. I'm saving this post

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redelk


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posted October 23, 2001 10:32 AM        
My 190 experience (on the 12R) was limited

While waiting for the OEM D207s to arrive, I ran a 2/3 worn 190/50 Avon Azero. I had used it on my '97 7R and was just keeping it around for a "emergency spare". I had remembered that I had loved it on the 7R... at first. After a short ride with it on the 12R, I remembered why I had taken it off the 7R before it was completely worn out (something I almost never do). After the Azero was about 1/2 worn, it felt like it had just lost all it's grip. I never figured out what the deal was. It was like a race tire that had gone through too many heat cycles.

So, given the fact that I felt the Azero was a shitty tire, I really can't say that it was the 190 size that made me not like it on the 12R. Maybe the 190 size had something to do with it, but considering my preconceived opinion of the Azero, I'll never really know. I do know that I'll never run another Azero on any bike I ever own. What made it even worse was that the Azero took almost two ounces of weights to get it to balance on both the 7R and the 12R. I have heard from others who also had problems getting Azeros to balance.

It doesn't help that the Azeros didn't have balancing marks on them either. Still, many manufacturers don't put the marks on their tires and this saddens me. I don't remember if Bridgestone or Metzler does, but I do know that Dunlop does and Michelin doesn't. On the Dunlops, the use a small 3/8" yellow circle on one of the sidewalls. This circle is supposed to be lined up with the rim's valve stem and it usually reduces or completely eliminates the need for and weights.

I've be using my dealer's tire machine and Snap-On spin balancer to do my own tires. One thing I've learned is that not only does the need for weight vary from brand to brand, but no two tires, even from the same manufacturer, are alike. Tires without balancing marks can be installed in a way that reduces the need for weights, but it's such a hassle that almost no mechanic is willing to do it for just the average Joe that buys a tire.

Basically, if it seems that the tire need quite a bit of weight to balance, you can rotate the tire on the rim 90°, 180° or 270° and try to find where the least amount of weight is needed. You could even move the tire in smaller increments if you wanted to. There's only one drawback to this method and it pretty well explains why very few are willing to do it. Everytime you want to rotate the tire on the rim, you have to deflate the tire, break the beads, rotate the tire, set the beads and the bring it to the proper PSI, THEN... put it back on the balancer. If it doesn't work, you get to do it all over again.

In reality, 2 ounces is not really that bad for a back. I've seen worse and I've seen better. How well the back tire is balanced is not as critical as the front. On the average, the Pilots on my 12R have needed .1 to .25 oz. on front and anywhere from .5 to 1.25 oz on the back. Like I said, every tire is different. Sometimes I wouldn't need any weight at all and others, I'd need close to 2 oz (usually on the back). Hell, even the rim itself could be out of balance. It's just that I'm always in too much of a hurry, knowing that I might have to rotate the tire on the rim, to have checked the rim by itself, on the spin balancer. I might try that next time I change tires.

How much weight it takes to balance a tire is almost a cosmetic thing. Now, I'm not saying that one shouldn't use the right amount of weight to attain a balanced wheel (no matter how much it talkes), just becase it doesn't look "cool". It's just that no one likes a bunch of big tire weights on their colored, polished or aftermarket wheels. I still have the OEM black wheels and they are not polished, but I still don't like the way the weights look on the rims. This is especially true for the type that go on the rim's bead lip.

On the other hand, I'm also a cheapskate. Maybe an "anal" one, but a cheapskate all the same. I use the tape weights for three reasons. The first one is that I can cut them to any weight I desire. Since the Snap On balancer can read as low as .1 oz (2.8 g), I can cut the tape weight to the exact amount I need. Second is that I can locate the weight in several different locations on the rim. I can put the close to the edge or in the center. I at least have a choice and can experiment on what works best. The last reason is the cheapskate part. Tape weight can come in colors, but I just get a black marker and color the tape weight black. Now, no one even notices.

Overkill? You betcha! I also have no "real life" and I get off on trying to figure this shit out. What makes it so much fun is that I'm still learning something new. Not only when I do stuff like change tires, but when I post here and others share their experiences and knowledge.
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-Ernest Hemingway

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MO


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posted October 23, 2001 02:27 PM        
Another thought, my bike is a 2000 I got it may 2001. could my 200/207 have just got hard and was no good from the day I got it? if thats the case I may be talkin shit about a perfectly good tire.
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redelk


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posted October 23, 2001 03:10 PM        
This is just a WILD GUESS...

... but I'd say, no.

Since the 200/50 is a size that is used on a VERY limited number of bike, there is a good possibility that there are some of these replacement tires have been sitting in dealers' showroom racks and parts warehouses for quite some time. In the case of the ones in the warehouses, they could have easily been exposed to all kinds of extremes in temp and humidity before they are sold. I assure you, they will sell them no matter how long they have be storing them.

What does this have to do with your bike and the tires that came with it?

Well again, I'm just guessing here, but I'd figure that your bike might have been sitting in your dealer's showroom for a while, verses remaining in the crate all the time until right before you bought it. If this is the case, the enviroment that the tires (and the rest of the bike) has been in would be a "controlled enviroment". In other words, it's never got very hot or cold and the humidity probably didn't change that much. Of course, if his showroom doesn't have heat or AC, I guess that wouldn't be true.

Anyway, let's say that it does and your bike has been sitting there all this time. Odds are, it really wasn't just sitting in the EXACT same place all this time. They probably moved it a few times as the brought in or took out other units. The reason I mention this is that IF a tire could develop a "flat spot" from sitting in the same place for a long, long period of time (and this is a pretty big IF), that wouldn't apply here since the bike has been moved.

Now if it was in the create all this time, who knows? But looking back on my comment on the replacement tires, I doubt if this would even matter that much, either. Now we all know that "age" effects rubber. Then again, we also know that it takes quite some time before any outward signs become visible (i.e. "dry rot" cracks). It doesn't take as long for the rubber to get hard, but I'd guess that it would not only take quite a bit of exposure to temp and humidity changes, but more importantly, I'd figure that it would take quite a bit of exposure to UV rays. The way I understand it, UV rays are the greatest enemy to rubber. Unless they have been storing this bike on the roof of the dealership, I doubt if it's been exposed to any serious amount of UV rays.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to note, this is all a wild guess and I have VERY LITTLE idea of what I'm talking about here. I just going on a vague memory of things I have either heard or read over a long period of time. I could be way off on this one, but it does sound logical... to me!
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway

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magzx12r


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posted October 25, 2001 07:57 AM        
From the Dunlop Website:

Diameter Width
190/50ZR17 25.03 7.63
200/50ZR17 24.88 7.76


Based on this info, the 190 is actually taller than the 200. Switching to a 190 will slightly raise the rear of the bike and slightly gear the bike up.

____________
Mark
'03 ZX-12R
'12 1199S

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SFODA


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posted October 25, 2001 09:24 AM        
On the subject of tires, nobody has addressed the zero degree radial of Metzler. I put these on my 1100 and was amazed at the difference in handling. Incredible; like the difference between 20 pounds low on air pressure and proper air pressure. Metzler is now making another model 200 series and also liked up with Pirrelli (sp?). Curious for any info. I have Pilot Sports on now and like them, but always willing to upgrade
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ZXtra


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posted October 25, 2001 11:06 AM        
Balance...

Redelk...Balance the rim first. That tells you where the heavy spot is on the rim.

Then mount the tire on the balanced rim (don't remove weights) and balance again. This will tell you where the heavy spot is on the tire.

Then rotate 2 heavy spots opposite each other, remove all weights, and balance again. This should limit your remounting to just once and you should end up using the least am't of balance weight. -ZXtra
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redelk


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posted October 25, 2001 11:07 AM        Edited By: redelk on 25 Oct 2001 18:11
Hey SOFDA!

Aren't you supposed to be at "work", fightin' dung beetles and such?

The new Metzelers (I've been forgitting the middle "e" in Metzeler) are called Rennsports and I've heard that they are even better the Pilots!

THANKS, ZXtra! That's a great idea and should be put in the library (Hello, Fish?)!

magzx12r, the Dunlop chart also shows the 200/50 recommended for a 6.5" rim. Aren't our rims 6" and not 6.5"? I'm not messin' with you, I'm serious. I always thought our rear rims were 6" x 17". Am I wrong on this?

On the Dunlop chart, the 180/55 is recommending a 5.5" rim with a 6" be acceptable. Again, dealing with "hard numbers" (vs. "real world" numbers), when you break down the tire size numbers it comes out something like this...

190/50
50% (aspect ratio) of 190mm (tire width) is 95mm or 3.74". Then, 3.74" x 2 = 7.48" + 17" = 24.48"

200/50
50% of 200mm is 100mm or 3.935". Then, 3.935" x 2 = 7.87" + 17" = 24.87"

Now this would be if everything was "equal". Figuring backwards using Dunlop's chart, the 190/50 turns out to be a 194/52.5 on a 6" rim. The 200/50 turns out to be a 197/51. What's strange is that the 200 on a 6.5" rim, overall diameter is consistent with the "hard numbers" but it's width is .14" smaller. With the 190 on a 6" rim, it's height is .55" taller and it's width is .15" more then the "hard numbers".

Now in the case of Bridgestone's BT010 the 190 is 24.7" (dia.) & 7.5" (tread width), while the 200 is 24.9" & 7.8". Both are measured on a 6" rim. The 180/55 is also 24.7" (like the 190), but 7.3" wide, when measured on a 5.5" rim. The Dunlop is 24.84" & 7.28" on the 5.5" rim.

This both proves and disproves some of my therories. It proves that every manufacturer's tire size is NOT exactly what's on the sidewall and no two brands will be the same. It disproves that putting a 180/55 on a 6" rim (acceptable, but not preferred) does not really change the overall height and width.
I'm afraid that MO probably has the best idea about these numbers. The only way to know for absoulutly sure would be to actually measure the tire (with accurate tools) right after it was mounted onto the rim. The make the "test" the most accurate, it would have to be done all at the same place (enviromental aspects of temp, altitude and barmetric pressure) and using the exact same rim for each of the tires that was being measured.

On the other hand, we all could just say "fuck it" and run the tire each of us likes best. I do appreciate you pointing out the size difference on the Dunlop 190/50. I didn't know and it's good for everyone here to be aware of this. Thanks. It does make me wonder what their 200/50 and 180/55 would measure on a 6" rim. Would the 200 grow in height and shrink in width? Would the 180/55 do the opposite? Who knows?


For those that want more information on the various tires...


TIRE WEBSITES

AVON AZERO

http://www.coopertire.com/avon_motorcycle/supersport.html

BRIDGESTONE BT010 (will have to go through the menus)

http://www.motorcycle-karttires.com/

DUNLOP D207ZR

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tirecatalog_tire.asp?id=2

METZELER RENNSPORT

http://www.metzelermoto.com/product_info/catalogo/scheda.asp?ID=168

METZELER ME Z3 Steel

http://www.metzelermoto.com/product_info/catalogo/scheda.asp?ID=171

MICHELIN PILOT SPORT & PILOT SPORT HPX (will have to go through the menus)

http://195.154.239.169/moto/home.htm

PIRELLI DRAGON EVO CORSA

http://www.pirelli-moto.com/tires/catalogo/scheda.asp?ID=126

____________
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-Ernest Hemingway

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