kllrvet
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 22, 2005 11:10 PM
Anyone know the 12 transmission and clutch intimately?
When I had the motor out of my bike to remove the base gasket, I also split the cases. While I was in there, I removed the counter balancer and the the balls for the neutral finder. I like removing the neutral finder on Kawasaki's, because it allows you to go to neutral from second gear.
Since I have had my bike back together, I have not been able to shift into neutral with the engine running. Everything else is fine. It shifts great all the time, except for neutral. I figured it was clutch stack height, as the transmission has been clunky and hard to get into neutral when cold since I installed a new clutch.
I pulled the clutch tonight, and it is right in the middle of the spec range according to the manual. I made sure the inner spring was installed properly as well. I also checked the steels, and made sure they are flat.
I can get it into neutral with the motor off, but that's it. Any ideas? Do I need to pull the motor and split the cases again?
Thanks in advance,
Tony
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kllrvet
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 22, 2005 11:45 PM
cable
If I lift the shifter to go from first into neutral, I wind up in second gear. Same for going from second to neutral, it goes right into first.
I also wanted to mention that the cable is propely adjusted.
Tony
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ZX14 cam chain tensioner making noise? I have the set it and forget it fix. PM me if I can help.
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted July 22, 2005 11:46 PM
1. Yes, I'm intimate with the clutch AND the transmission on a ZX-12R.
2. I think you've answered your own question.
3. Suggestion: if it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
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kllrvet
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 23, 2005 12:08 AM
Could you be a bit more specific?
Tony
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ZX14 cam chain tensioner making noise? I have the set it and forget it fix. PM me if I can help.
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matt sterbator
Pro
Hiding in the bushes
Posts: 1367
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posted July 23, 2005 12:30 AM
Yes I can.
quote:
When I had the motor out of my bike to remove the base gasket, I also split the cases. While I was in there, I removed the counter balancer and the the balls for the neutral finder. I like removing the neutral finder on Kawasaki's, because it allows you to go to neutral from second gear.
quote:
Since I have had my bike back together, I have not been able to shift into neutral with the engine running. Everything else is fine. It shifts great all the time, except for neutral.
You changed something designed into the transmission. Dunno 'bout you, but I've had NO issues going from 2nd to neutral if I really wanted to. Just gotta be soft and slow.
quote:
I figured it was clutch stack height, as the transmission has been clunky and hard to get into neutral when cold since I installed a new clutch.
I pulled the clutch tonight, and it is right in the middle of the spec range according to the manual. I made sure the inner spring was installed properly as well. I also checked the steels, and made sure they are flat.
I doubt stack height has anything to do with anything. 2 years, 1 exploded 2nd gear, 300+ drag strip passes and unknown amount of clutch changes/inspections, I've YET to measure the "stack: height. It either works or it doesn't work. I'm running all the same size steels and NO "inner springs".
If it's that big a deal, I'd put the neutral finder parts back in the bike. I see no reason NOT to have it installed and working as designed.
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted July 23, 2005 05:40 AM
I agree totally...
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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kllrvet
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 23, 2005 06:43 AM
I appreciate the input, and think you may be right.
I have removed the neutral finder on many Kawasaki's, and never had a problem. Mostly on KZ based motors, but I have done it to a ZX-11 as well, with no issues. What about the ZX12 is proving to be problematic?
Tony
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ZX14 cam chain tensioner making noise? I have the set it and forget it fix. PM me if I can help.
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gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted July 23, 2005 09:37 AM
I go from second to neutral all the time a red lights with NO problem. I agree with both the other post. Don't fix what aint broke.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 23, 2005 04:08 PM
The neutral finder does nothing to preclude going from second TO neutral. That option is always available. What the neutral finder does is keep you from going from neutral to second. AT A STOP, with the engine running, you can only select first or neutral. This makes finding neutral foolproof. Shift to first and click up. The only time this feature is undesireable is if you want to start off in second, but even then, if you want to do a second gear burnout you just get the wheel moving in first and upshift.
Here's a related story- I had (and still have ) a '73 Z-1, the first bike with this feature. I had it apart in the winter to install a complete Yosh kit like the one they did for Cycle News that year. After doing a very careful and complete rebuild I had the bike in my family room and tried to move the tranny through the gears. Damn ! I couldn't select second! WTF! I tried and tried, took the damn thing completely apart again and only when I had the transmission shaft and the three little balls in my hands did I realize that I had forgotten about this feature!
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kllrvet
Expert Class
Posts: 148
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posted July 23, 2005 08:26 PM
I suspect the clutch once again, more than likely warped steels. I checked them and they seemed okay, but maybe not. In 1st gear, with the clutch pulled in, if you rev the throttle, the bike tries to creep forward. Also, I have never been able to go to neutral from second, unless the bike is rolling. I am guessing that I have had a warped steel all along, and only noticed now, since I removed the balls.
Tony
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ZX14 cam chain tensioner making noise? I have the set it and forget it fix. PM me if I can help.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 24, 2005 06:23 PM
Helloooo...
That's what it's SUPPOSED to do- prevent you from going into anything OTHER than neutral from first unless you are rolling.....
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted July 24, 2005 06:24 PM
Helloooo...
That's what it's SUPPOSED to do- prevent you from going into anything OTHER than neutral from first unless you are rolling.....
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted July 25, 2005 01:18 AM
What has been said. It dosen't prevent going from 2nd th N only from N to 2nd when stop. If You remove it, it's very had to find N because it just goes "over" it. Noticed this after deeling lately lot with a '86 Z1300 transmission. I had to take the PNF feature away because I was using gears from older Z1300 ('79) that didn't had the feature. When I had to go back to the transmission after it blew again I installed the whole older transmission (not just the one gear) with drum and dogs and finding N is now easier because the drum was engineered to stop to N without PNF. The newer drum was made so that it would anyway stop at N and so after removing PNF it was hard. I also don't see why would You want remove it - even the first gear is almost too long to start riding!
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