aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted June 03, 2004 07:31 AM
Thats what I'm talking about,now I have something to relate to the builder.Alex said it would be able to handle up to a 40lb shot if I ever choose to upgrade but that anything more I would need to lower the compression ratio to around 12.2.I'm not planning on shaving or oring the cylinder but I will tell the mechanic to watch the top for piston clearance.I'm like VH in that I don't have money to waste(married with children),so I greatly appreciate the responses and mean no disrespect with the previous post.Great read and I learn alot from you guys.
ZRXDean-welcome to Dragracers anonamous-Will you be my sponsor and teach me the 12 steps lol
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johnnycheese
Pro
Posts: 1008
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posted June 03, 2004 07:35 AM
sit down with your builder and tell He/She what you want and then it will happen.
You need a goal to work to.
lay it out on so you both are on the same page.
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Builder and tuner of some of the fastest N.A. and P/A Hayabusas and ZX12 /14 in Texas
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted June 03, 2004 02:20 PM
I don't see any room on my 1320 block to o ring it. And if I was not mainly drag racing it I would not have brought one. The walls are to thin for cooling.
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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Hells Dark Lord
Needs a life
living life, and loving it.
Posts: 7981
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posted June 03, 2004 02:25 PM
I want the fastest street leagle ZX12R that I cn get on my mac and cheese eating budget.....lol can anyone help me out....i got a donor bike for people to try their turbo kits on, just leave the kit on it when you return it to me....lol
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted June 03, 2004 06:28 PM
I will not defend SBM, but I will comment with my experiences with the products that "I" have purchased.
Bossman,,,,,there is room for the O-ring, I have a block that was ringed.
Cooling is no problem, but temperature swings will occur! 24v was the answer. I do not spray and don't have plans to spray. If I need to go faster than all motor, I will buy a busa and get the "proper CC's" to do whatever.
There is a LIMITED number of products and even less room in our motors to do very much. So, lets remember that shariing about what we can do is really more important to US zx12 guys than anything else.
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted June 03, 2004 06:37 PM
So you have to use 2 batteries on it with the 13.1 pistons? If you get it O ringed does it use the same head gasket?
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 04, 2004 02:03 AM
 Edited By: entropy on 4 Jun 2004 03:13
want some opinions on O-ringing???? 
(the sources have been deleted; you know who youse are...)
Coby Adams told me to O-ring the block and use a regular gasket in conjunction with. I don't know what other opinions are but I listen to Coby myself
The correct way now days is to O-Ring the head
Ray Belluci got me into O-Ringing blocks with stock head gaskets mill out the o-ring would protrued .005"-.008". The way to do a busa or a gixxer1000 is to o-ring the heads. Cometic HP gaskets are JUNK I run a stock busa gasket mill out on everything I build!!! Motorhead AKA FASMOFOCO if U where to run as much spray with stock head bolts as some guys do U would find out the hard way. TRU DAT!
i run non o'ringed motors over 35# of boost; problem is with fasteners yeilding
i o'ringed my busa in 2000; went through these hoops, i decided to fix the real problem, cyl. pressure vs clamping force vs fastener strength; cant move it it does not leak; pretty simple
My block (SBM) came "o-ringed" as a cheap option. So not knowing if i would ever spray I went for it. Nothing wrong with the OEM headgaskets...I am still running the full compression of the kit with no probs.
Oiled cooled motors tend to be fine with o-rings Water cooled motors seem to have problems getting sealed up good with o rings
I o-ring the head not block and use oem syle head gasket..
o-ring and a properly machined reciever groove opposing it works best; ie. o-ring the block and reciver groove in the head, gives the copper gasket "somewhere to go"; but beware, this is not a somple machining operation as the reciever groove must be "EXACTLY" above the o-ring groove; used to do it on the really big oil-cooled engines when the bores were 88 and 89 mm and nothing left of the gasket between cylinders and the cam chain area mainly; but it works on anything when done right and it gives the o-ring somewhere to go "so to say"; rather than "slightly holding up the head" with the proper sealer a copper gasket will hold water too
Listen to MH, cylinder studs are crucial. I have NEVER had a copper gasket hold(for long) on any H2O cooled motor. I have had good luck with the cometic HP on big motor/spray combos. I have had mixed results with the stock gaskets. Also the stock studs should be replaced after a couple of rebuilds
Over 10 yrs ago I was plagued with head gasket probs... They claimed that nobody on the street could stress a motor harder than road racing.....WRONG!!! These motors were for TOPEND street racing. The gaskets held up fine under 1/4 mile/road race use. I tried every gasket and orings too. The fix on these was simply a set of cylinder studs....the coppers never did hold up with studs either. I do my own R&D on engine setups. If it's holds on my "test track" during repeated 6th gear on limiter tests(for 2 miles), it will survive all else. Top ends put the highest sustained cylinder pressures of all motor racing...You are at redline the longest possible time. I have used all types of current gaskets in the newer gen bikes. I will never put a coppper in a "street" bike that is H2O cooled. My suggestion is to run a spring steel or OEM type gasket with HD studs/bolts, or raise the torque on the OEMS if possible(we do it on the Busa's). Also ensure the detonation is not occurring and raising the cylinder pressure(common). I would oring only as the last resort...and I don't believe you should have to.
Copper head gaskets don't seal as well as the regular cometic gasket. Might want to look into the Cometic HP- high compression. I use the Cometic HP gasket on the Busa same compession with no problems.
The thing with copper gaskets is to use a high copper adhesive, like on big diesel trucks. You may have to heat cycle the engine a few times to get the final headbolt torque perfect.
I would make sure both surfaces are flat and very smooth, and try using a Cometic HP gasket, assembled as carefully as you can. Put it through a heat cycle and retorque. If that blows, then spend the time and money to get it oringed, and commit to copper gaskets and sealer for the life of the block. SB Mike actually recommends a spring steel head gasket with his .020 SS rings, but I had better luck (it held for more than one pass...) with copper, and every tuner I talked to thought using OEM gaskets with orings was nuts. I'd go with copper [w/ringed block]. I have no experience with nikasil blocks, but I've heard nothing but good things about Millenium. (pic)- Here's the stainless orings SBM installed on my old block. I eventually replaced these with .032 copper rings. Then added .032 rings on the head too. Nothing helped
We have the capability to o-ring, but don't do it often as set up time would push it into a pretty long time to get at the job; call Star, they do this type of work routinely
We certainly do O-ringing, but need to have at least .100" between cylinders so the rings don't interfer; we use .038 copper wire. Some shops do thinner wire and get away with .086" between cyl???; Busas. Maybe better to use OEM spring steel gasket which has the black goo which seems to adhere to the block & head. The OEM gasket can be opened up by EDM to fit the 87mm big block bore; MPS (Mancuso?) in Ohio does this kind of work.
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bossman12r
Zone Head
Posts: 513
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posted June 04, 2004 04:20 AM
I thought I read that the Studs for the 12 that APE sell are no stronger than the stock ones. Has any one else heard of this?
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gen 4 zx10 is fast
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted June 04, 2004 09:27 AM
Yeah I have two batteries,,,a FBG gell cell and another small gell cell. Stop ALL hot starting problems and also made cold starting better. You WILL have issues with one battery.
I use a OEM headgasket that is bored. I buy them from SBM, cause they do the machining.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted June 04, 2004 10:13 AM
quote:
Yeah I have two batteries,,,a FBG gell cell and another small gell cell. Stop ALL hot starting problems and also made cold starting better. You WILL have issues with one battery.
Where did you mount the second battery?
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted June 04, 2004 10:35 AM
Sounds like the source is B..... ....... 
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 04, 2004 07:24 PM
Edited By: entropy on 4 Jun 2004 20:25
quote:
Sounds like the source is B..... .......
TB:
actually every paragraph is a different source; Star, Orient, Muzzy, SBM, THM, and some of our own outspoken, experienced members. Lots of folks are very kind with their advice to a noobster like me!
What's interesting is when you stack up all the advice from the real experts, some of the advice is 180 degrees opposite of others.
What a great sport!!!
(and no, unfortunately, Big Busa didn't contribute... )
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